UPDATE: Suggestion: my next PC project on the cheap...

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His Royal Majesty King V
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UPDATE: Suggestion: my next PC project on the cheap...

Post by His Royal Majesty King V »

All,

Well, I've made mention of a Slot-1 system I have with a BX motherboard and a P-II 333 CPU. It works.

I've also mentioned the Compaq Slot-A Athlon system I have that I haven't gotten to work with the two proprietary Compaq motherboards I have.

So, what I have useful is:
1) Plenty of SDRAM 168-pin DIMMs
2) Videocards
3) Soundcards,
4) A standard ATX case with 230 watt PS
5) The BX-motherboard, working
6) A 700MHz Slot A CPU - I'm fairly sure it's working, but if not, it's under warranty. (EDIT: It's a 650MHz actually, I apparently need to keep better track!)


I guess I can do one of the following:

1) Go AMD -
a) get a good HSF for the CPU (the one that came with the compaq is unbearably loud), and a Slot A motherboard.

2) Go Intel -
a) Get a faster P3 Slot 1 CPU, preferably the later ones with the on-die cache
b) Get a slotket and a Socket 370 CPU that runs off the 100MHz FSB.


What can I do that gets me the best bang for the buck? I'm fairly sure going AMD would be cheaper, the CPU is the fixed factor. However, with the Intel, I could potentially spend more, but also go faster.

But then, can I get a board and CPU as Slot A (or later) from AMD for the same money as what I'd spend upgrading the Intel platform?

I would prefer to keep it cheap, but if a little extra money gets me more bang for the buck, I'll go for it.

Thoughts and suggestions?


EDIT: I should clarify . . when I say P3, I refer generically to:

1) The Slot 1 P3 CPUs that run on 100Mhz FSB
2) The Socket 370 P3 CPUs that run on 100MHz FSB (do such even exist?), coupled with a slocket
3) The Socket 370 Celeron CPUs that have a P3-based core, run on 100MHz FSB, and coupled with a slocket
Last edited by His Royal Majesty King V on Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TA152H
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Post by TA152H »

One thing I would suggest is that you examine the bigger picture when you make your decision. By that I mean, pay attention to the power the processors take. A huge portion of the amount you pay for a computer is the electricity it uses, and a lot of people do not consider this because it is not an initial cost. But, if you use your computer many hours a day, the cost of electricity quickly adds up. In the winter, where it is cold, it is not an altogether a bad thing because a lot of that electricity heats your house. Conversely, in the summer it is doubly bad since it adds additional costs for air conditioning. All in all, I would pay special attention to it.

For that reason, I would pay attention to the smallest lithography you can get for your motherboards, or just start off from scratch. The Athlon is a pretty crappy chip in my opinion compared to the P6. The P6 was much smaller, used less energy and ran at least at the same speed per clock cycle (though generally had a harder time reaching the same clock speeds). So, I would tend to pick the Coppermine or the Tualatin. Check the power consumptions vis-a-vis the Athlons. The original Athlons are horrid. I had a .25 (1100 MHz) that I threw out and bought a 1467 MHz (annoyingly named 1700+) and underclocked it at 1100 MHz (and lowered the voltage so it is much better on power). Another consideration is the Athlon XP-M. I bought a 2600+ model and underclocked it as well. These are .13 microns, so even more efficient (they were not available when I bought the 1700+) and you can change the clock multiplier. This way you can keep the memory bus running at 166 x 2 and just lower the multiplier to drop the clock speed. By doing so, you can dramatically lower the voltages, particularly if you run at very low clock speeds.

If you are used to running on a dog like a K6, any of these will still be much faster than your current computer. I use a K6-III+ at 500 MHz most of the time (it used to run at 550MHz, but now causes problems with Internet Explorer. I am too lazy to change the chip, but I have four others so I can if I ever become inclined). It is getting cold up here in NY, so I am going to start using the Athlon XP 1467 MHz at full clock speed. It heats a small room up rather nicely :P. The earlier Athlons are even more dreadful, since one of the biggest selling points on the Athlon XP was the lower power use.

Another thing you can consider, and I am too, are the Via processors. Again, because you are running with a dog like a K6, they will not seem slow and probably rather quick. You can get fanless ones that run up to 1 GHz, but you buy them with a motherboard. Their power use is very, very slight. You can get them at 1.2 GHz in a model with a fan, which still uses very low power compared to other processors, but reasonably good performance. Keep in mind, they are not very efficient per clock cycle, so you should not make the assumption the 1 GHz would run twice the speed as a K6-III+ at 500 MHz. It certainly would be faster, but not twice as much, and it uses considerably less power even than a K6-III+, which is very good in that respect as well.

One problem with the VIA solutions is, I can not seem to find the 1 GHz fanless version for sale anywhere. None of the VIA processors/motherboards are particuarly easy to find anyway, but you can generally get them if you look (I will give you URLs too, if you are interested). I suspect the 600 MHz is slower than the K6-III at 500 MHz and the 800 MHz is probably quicker. I found them both available. I am still looking for the 1 GHz version to be available though.

Another problem is the expandability of these motherboard/processor combinations. From what I have seen, they only have one slot and it is a PCI slot. The different motherboards have different features so you can buy what you need on the motherboard, generally. This makes it less of a disadvantage, since you can get sound, video, LAN, etc... already on the motherboard. Still, you may not be comfortable with only one PCI slot available.

Anyway, hope these give you something else to look at. I am particularly looking at power because I run a server 24 hours a day and these beastly processors that use nearly 100 watts become very expensive and often times unnecessarily fast. Combined with a slow hard disk (I use a 5400 RPM Seagate, which is very low power), it is possible to greatly reduce the power usage of the machine. This assumes you do not need the processing power of the fastest processors, which I do not believe most people do.
DasMan2

Post by DasMan2 »

Power consumption is very important , good points TA152H .

A 100 watt appliacance running 24 hours a day is similiar to having another Fridge or 21" TV running all day.

Think of the fact should you or your family have several computers running 5 hours + a day and they are 75+watt consumers each ....it will probably be a large portion of your electricity charge.

For everyday use my K6-III 450+ running @ 575 is great & cheap.

The big companies will catch the understanding that other places in this world are not rich nor do they have cheap electricity either.

Long live the AMD K6-2/III (+) .... 8)
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His Royal Majesty King V
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Post by His Royal Majesty King V »

Well, power consuption isn't a problem for me. I don't leave it running 24/7. If it does stay on long, my power-save settings are usually to put things to sleep at around 5-10 minutes of being idle.

Just trying to figure on the best/cheapest way to go with the weird collection of parts I have.
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Post by Wiggy »

I would spend a bit more and go Intel. The fact you have the BX Mobo swings it for me. That 700 Athlon will be running out of steam quickly. And it's a hot bugger.
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His Royal Majesty King V
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Update.....

Post by His Royal Majesty King V »

Update:

Well, I finally went with the Intel platform.

Got an Iwill Slocket II, and a Celeron 800 (100 FSB), both used, for a grand total investment of $20.10.

Oh, and I had to spend about $11 on Arctic Silver 5. I still have more than a half tube of Arctic Silver (the original!) somewhere, and one day I might even find it again! I only used it 3 months ago, too!

And, apparently, dealing with pushing in and pulling out cartidges on a Slot 1 is a very forceful experience. I must've cracked something because suddenly the board didn't want to work anymore. Even putting back the known working P-II 333, it simply refused to boot or POST, and let out some very unhappy sounding beep codes.

Fortunately there were a few more boards in a cardboard box at work. An Abit which refused to boot, and an Asus P3B-F, which needed nothing but a BIOS upgrade.

Oh, and of course, I broke one side of the Slot 1 retainer bracket. The AMD slot A board, while not working, didn't give me anywhere CLOSE to this kind of trouble putting in and pulling out the CPUs.

Still, given how tight-fitting the slocket seems to be, I don't think I have to worry.

Ran the old BurnIn Test 2.1 for a bit. No errors, all seems to work well.

The cool thing is that I can probably overclock, as this board has settings to go up to 150MHz or more FSB, and has an adjustable PCI divider that will do 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4.

Unfortunately, AGP only has a 1/1, and 2/3 divider. So anything over 100FSB will overclock the AGP. Ugh.



Anyway, I want to thank everyone who offered suggestions, advice, etc. This will probably become my main computer, since up to this point I'd been using the AMD K6-2+ 450 (oc to 500) as the main workhorse.

The K6-2+ is still going to see use though.... as will the K6-III 450 (also oc to 500).


Now, to choose a videocard......
FIC PA-2103 E-O036, K6-2+ 450 2.0V @ 500 1.9V
FIC PA-2013 E-O036, K6-III 450 2.2V @ 500
Acer quasi-proprietary Mid-tower, P-II 266
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