Socket 7 into 2011

Off topic chat and stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere.
Jim
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Post by Jim » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:03 pm

I ran SuperPuppy 3 for years without problems on a DFI K6BV3+ /66 board (MVP3).

Try running Everest & Sandra on your machine and see what results you get.
I was able to get my DFI up to 5.5 x 103 MHz with no problem running Hynix Ram.
Another thing is you get much better results with the 5.5 multiplier, and a K6+ processor.
Whether it be K6-2+ or K6-3+, prefferably the latter.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

DonPedro
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Post by DonPedro » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:42 pm

@mikemix

re wd100bb: the transfer speed you are refering to is purely theoretical and has no practical meaning.

I also would obstain from installing windows xp - this os is way over the power of a socket-7 system. you will be better off with using win 2000.

here is a screenshot of what the drive is worth:
Attachments
Western_Digital_WD100BB.gif
Western_Digital_WD100BB.gif (60.73 KiB) Viewed 7214 times

mikemex
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Post by mikemex » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:42 am

@DonPedro:

I already tried it and 2000 isn't all that lighter compared to XP as they are essentially the same product. You can disable a lot of things in XP to leave them more or less equivalent. My default install uses only about 85MB of RAM. However, Windows XP is far more supported than 2000 and I wouldn't be surprised if they release SP4 before it's all over. 2000 is frozen already and I've seen in a lot of places that it is starting to show incompatiblities already.

@Jim:

You're my hero then! With the Radeon 7500 installed, the machine doesn't even complete Windows XP setup normally. Right at the end the screen turns off. I have to restart the machine blindly and enable VGA mode in order to install the VIA 4in1 driver and only that would allow the machine boot normally. If I install the driver before changing CPU to AGP bridge, it BSODs right at the start (ati2dvag.dll error).

You could say: fine, one more step, so what? Well, thing is, I tried opening youtube and the computer BSODs again (ati3duag.dll error). I've found no solution to that but to disable hardware acceleration in flash (and I wonder: what's the point to have a nice video card then?).

I installed a gigabit network card (ENLGA-1020, based on RTL8169SC) and it detects it. I install the drivers and all, shows no error or anything weird but it plain does nothing. It doesn't even turn the light on when I plug the network cable. It's not a voltage issue like with the M571, here the proper voltage is provided and the chipset simply doesn't handle it well.

Something similar happens with an USB 2.0 card based on VT6212L. It is detected, installed properly without error and it even works fine with USB 1.1 devices like a mouse. BUT if I install an USB 2.0 device, it becomes very slow until I reboot it and it even loses the device I plug in (say, like an USB stick).

Excuse me but all this sounds to me like major issues. Normal behaviour is to plug a card in, install the drivers and start working. It's not the USB card, the network card or the video card; it's the chipset. It is starting to sound a lot like Linux: you spend 90% of time working on the machine itself and the remaining 10% to do something useful with it.

I read somewhere that CE Revision and up of the MVP3 chipset was fixed for good, which I suspect your DFI K6BV3+ /66 has, considering ATA-66 support and most likely 686A southbridge. However, I'm stuck with the original thing and I've read no confirmation whatsoever that all the issues I saw in my youth were fixed at all. It sounds more like all I can aspire to is a so-so machine capable of doing the basic stuff like word processing and internet browsing (and not even that!) and nothing else.

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jsc1973
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Post by jsc1973 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 pm

Windows 2000 also has this nasty habit of getting hacked into, if you try to go online with it and you're not behind a firewall. It hasn't been supported for a year now, and there aren't any more security updates for it. I hate it, because it is better than XP on older machines. It's basically XP with the Win9x front end, which is less taxing on a system to run.

These days, I actually think Windows 98se is safer. It's so old that no one tries to exploit it anymore. But making it run anything that came out in the last five years requires KernelEx, and that opens up another can of worms.
FIC VA-503+, Rev. 1.2, AMD K6-III+ 450@550MHz, 80GB Seagate ATA-100, 3dfx Voodoo3 3500 TV, TB Montego II Quadzilla, Win98se, 384MB PC100

Compaq Presario 1273, AMD K6-III+ 450@400MHz 1.8v, 40GB Samsung 5400RPM, extremely hacked Win98SE, 288 (yes, 288!) MB RAM
(Also an AMD FX-8350, which does the heavy lifting these days...)

Jim
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Post by Jim » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:24 pm

I used XP with service pack 1A on Superpuppy 3 and that worked just fine with 512 Meg of Ram. Another thing is, I stop updating after a while, because that just bloats Windopes more and more. Done that way I got about 10 points better in Everest with XP than I did with 98SE.

Re the install problem, what I found I had to do was install "Windopes" with an old PCI video card, of a type that XP has the drivers for. And once I had Windopes installed, I would switch video cards then load the drivers. I did the setup of the ATI video card drivers and the AGP drivers the way it is posted Here :

http://www.k6plus.com/index.php?name=PN ... 75&start=0

You will find a downloadable zip file at the bottom of that page which describes in detail how I set up XP on Superpuppy 3.

One other thing I found was that some versions of Internet Explorer were incompatable with Adobe Flash Player. There was one file in Flash Player that would cause internet Exploder to explode. So I didn't use "Flash Player".
Last edited by Jim on Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

mikemex
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Location: Mexico

Post by mikemex » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:54 am

@DonPedro:

See, controller matters (spikes are due to intermitent services kicking in, like automatic updates and the like):
Attachments
wd100bb.gif
wd100bb.gif (32.94 KiB) Viewed 7136 times

mikemex
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Post by mikemex » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:58 am

Jim wrote:I used XP with service pack 1A on Superpuppy 3 and that worked just fine with 512 Meg of Ram. Another thing is, I stop updating after a while, because that just bloats Windopes more and more. Done that way I got about 10 points better in Everest with XP than I did with 98SE.

Re the install problem, what I found I had to do was install "Windopes" with an old PCI video card, of a type that XP has the drivers for. And once I had Windopes installed, I would switch video cards then load the drivers. I did the setup of the ATI video card drivers and the AGP drivers the way it is posted Here :

http://www.k6plus.com/index.php?name=PN ... 75&start=0

You will fiond a downloadable zip file at the bottom of that page which describes in detail how I set up XP on Superpuppy 3.

One other thing I found was that some versions of Internet Explorer were incompatable with Adobe Flash Player. There was one file in Flash Player that would cause internet Exploder to explode. So I didn't use "Flash Player".
Thanks Jim, I'm taking notes based in your instructions. I actually read in a forum this and pretty much summarizes it all:
None of the super socket 7 chipsets had decent AGP support. Generally the only way to get them stable was to force AGP 1x, with no SBA.
Nothing prevented the machine from crashing other than disabling AGP 2X in the BIOS and forcing AGP 1X in the drivers. This seems to be only possible with older versions of Catalyst because the latest still crashes (because SMART GART detects AGP 2X and tries to enable it).

I'm now worried about the stability of the PCI Bus. I'd like to make a NAS out of the machine but I feel it's too unstable to trust it with all my data.

I'm wondering if you can recommend me an extensive stability test program. Prime95 only tests memory-chipset-cpu I'd like to find one which writes to the disk and checks the info periodically.

DonPedro
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Post by DonPedro » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:11 pm

mikemix,

thanks for the update. Seems to be a very efficient ide-implementation on that tx-II pro chipset (sis 5597/98).

I just found a website giving a lot of information about mb-chipsets, cpus, graphic-chipsets. especially what is written in the notes under the various tables given there one will find valuable information:

http://mysite.verizon.net/pchardwarelinks/

mikemex
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Post by mikemex » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:37 am

I've found something nice!:

http://cgi.ebay.de/SOKET-7-BOARD-OVERCL ... 20b2848311

Shipping is very expensive. Maybe we can do a bulk purchase and distribute them ourselves among members through cheaper regular mail.

I'll be selling my current K6-3 locally in case someone is interested. In Mexico City you can pick it up for free.

http://www.merkantia.com/index.php?mkc=6&anuncio=163
5EHM / K6-3 AHX 400 / 512MB PC133 / Radeon 7500 / Wireless / SB Live! / CD-RW / SATA-PCI + 7K160
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mamba
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Post by mamba » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:16 am

I don't think it is a good idea.
It's an ATZ, stay away from it if you want to overclock.

A 1,6V chip doesnt' like 0,4V overvolt and 50% overclock very much.
It's a very good low power chip but that's all.

Stick on a 1.8V chip or better a 2.0V, I think you can easily find one in USA.

Jim
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Post by Jim » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:08 pm

Actually, according to Monaro327 ALL K6-3+ chips were manufactured to the same specifications. AMD then devided them into various types in accordance with what part of the "Wafer" the individual chips came from. Apparently some parts of the "Wafer" were more apt to safely require less voltage, and some parts were more apt to be able to clock higher.

The 400 ATZ is somewhat less likely to be able to clock 600 MHz at 2.1 volts, than say an ACZ 450, but not all that much less likely.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

mikemex
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Location: Mexico

Post by mikemex » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:43 pm

Indeed Jim, for the most part.

Theory is the same for any semiconductor, regardless of maker and generation: the lower the voltage a chip can take, the higher the frequency it can operate at.

Think about it: what does it mean to take low voltage? To operate reliably where other processors fail. In other words, if an ATZ chip operates reliably at 1.6v where other processors need 2.0v, those other processors are actually overclocked compared to the 1.6v chip. And if they are overclocked already, they have less potential to hit higher frequencies.

K6-3+ was never offered above 550 MHz if I recall correctly, so 600 is overclocking for any chip. I suspect not all ATZ chips will hit 600 MHz reliably but the same can be said for any other chip. What I'm convinced of is that a 400 ATZ is almost 100% sure to hit 550 MHz.

Again, $20 is too much for shipping alone, but if someone is interested in purchasing a chip with discounted shipping, I can place an order for various chip and ship the remaining through regular mail, dividing costs among all involved. Just send me a private message. The chip itself is very handsomely priced at about $10 and it will probably be the last chance to get one at this point.
5EHM / K6-3 AHX 400 / 512MB PC133 / Radeon 7500 / Wireless / SB Live! / CD-RW / SATA-PCI + 7K160
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Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:07 pm

To some extent you are wrong Mike. The 400 ATZ is the BOTTOM of the K6-3+ lineup. Though it is usually capable of clocking 600 MHz at 2.1 volts, it has a higher failure rate at doing so than any of the other K6-3+ chips available. The fact that it is rated at 1.6 volts doesn't mean anything. All the other types will clock 400 MHz at 1.6 volts or less.

See my post on "K6-3+ 450 ACZ under / over clocking results" Here :

http://www.k6plus.com/index.php?name=PN ... pic&t=1434
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

mikemex
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Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:00 pm
Location: Mexico

Post by mikemex » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:56 pm

Yes, I'm wrong in assumng that other chips need more than 1.6v to run at 400 MHz. I wouldn't be surprised if the ATZ can run at 400 MHz with less than 1.6v, though. When a chip is offered as a low power one, it is generally because it is of higher, and not less, quality. Think in terms of intel's LV and ULV variants.
5EHM / K6-3 AHX 400 / 512MB PC133 / Radeon 7500 / Wireless / SB Live! / CD-RW / SATA-PCI + 7K160
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Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:44 pm

MikeMex : You might have missed this one so I am posting it here for you. The long and the short of it is AMD did things backwards with the K6-3+ chips. The best ones were rated for higher voltage, (more overclockable), and the lesser ones were rated for lower voltage. An exception is the K6-3+ 500 ANZ, which was rated for 500 MHz at 1.8 volts. Higher speed, and lower voltage. Not sure where it fits in, BUT the K6-3+ 450 ACZ is rated for the Highest voltage, and the highest temperature, so It is the most overclockable of the bunch, with a few people successfully getting over 700 MHz with one of them.

Having installed three 256 Meg sticks of Hynix HYM71V32635HCT8P-K, (PC133 CL2), in Superpuppy 2, I decided to see if I could get 112 MHz FSB stable.

Superpuppy 2 : ASUS P5A-B Rev 104 w/ K6-3+ 450 ACZ @ 5.5 x 112 MHz, (616 MHz), @ 2.3v. w/ mobo cache enabled. (First attempt; - has gone well, will try to reduce to 2.2v. later).

Everest :
Memory Read = 361 MB/s
Memory Write = 177 MB/s
Memory Latency = 182.8 ns

Sandra :
Performance Rating (Estimated) = 740
Arithmetic = 1521 D ALU MIPS ; 731 W FPU MFLOPS.
Multimedia = 3544 INT MMX ; 4217 FLOAT 3D NOW!
Memory Bandwidth : (Run repeatedly on account of rising results)
INT MMX : 210 ; 213 ; 229 ; 231 ; 238 ; 241 ; 240.
FLOAT FPU : 210 ; 216 ; 228 ; 234 ; 237 ; 237 ; 237.
Cache & Memory Bandwidth : 1164 - 2k ; 1179 - 4k ; 1183 - 8k ; 1164 - 16k ; 1120 - 32k ; 1036 - 64k ; 915 - 128k ; 630 - 256k ; 268 - 512k ; 236 - 1Meg ; 236 - 4Meg ; 235 - 16Meg ; 237 - 64 Meg ; 236 - 256Meg.

Rerunning Everest AFTER Sandra gave the following results :
Memory Read = 365 MB/s
Memory Write = 201 MB/s
Memory Latency = 184.3 ns


All tests run under WIN98-SE ; w/ Power Tweak 2's tweaks ; w/ : CAS Latency = 2T ; RAS to CAS Delay = 2T ; RAS Precharge = 2T ; RAS Active Time = 6T ; Row Cycle Time = 9T. - & my usual mess of 10 taskbar items running.

_________________
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

Last edited by Jim on Nov 07, 2005 - 10:19 PM; edited 1 time in total
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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