PIO vs DMA modes, benching ....

Discussion relating to Socket 7 hardware.
Jim
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Post by Jim »

K, it, (UDMA 0), is official now. HD Tach says that the speed I am getting from my two WD 40 gig drives is pathetic. So slow it is embarassing. That being the case something has to be done.

Would note in passing that Sandra has warned me that noise reduction is enabled on these drives, (at some cost in performance). Took that up w/ WD, and they said that there is no provision for that w/ these drives. Seem to recall that when I first setup this machine ages ago, that I used some very old software from WD to set things up; and that I probably did enable noise reduction w/ it.

Seems what I have to do is : 1) Disable noise reduction. 2) Figure out a way to get these things operating at their proper UDMA 4 rate. 3) If needs be replace the CMD 649 driver. 4) If needs be, copy off all data to other drives, then low level format these ones to try to restore them to specs.
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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi »

What happens if you use the VIA Controller?

It is interesting that the DFI manual says ATA-33/66 (UDMA Modes 2 and 4) is supported, where the VIA manual says only ATA-33 is supported (it appears that the DFI manual is incorrect).

As a test, what happens if you connect a drive there? You should at least get UDMA-2, which would eliminate trouble with the HDD...

Do you have the manual, etc...for your card? I just downloaded the one for the 680, and it mentions the 649...
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PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

The drives connected to the onboard controller are getting over double the data transfer rate that the ones on the controller card are. No I do not have a manual; the card did not come w/ one. Instead it came with a CDROM disk w/ a whole slew of drivers for many different kinds of cards. Seems little or no support available for CMD 649. May wind up replacing card.

I do not believe there is anything wrong w/ the drives other than "Noise Reduction" being enabled.

Interesting that you should say that the VIA manual says only ATA 33 is supported. For which chipset is that? If that were true DFI pulled a very fast one, because the board is called the DFI K6BV3+/66 wherein the /66 means ATA66. Where can one get these VIA Manuals?

Probably is something that can be played w/ via WP Credit, since one of the devices that can be tuned is the IDE Controller, and another is the 649 Raid Controller; though you need the right PCR Files to do it. I do not have the one for the 649 Raid Controller. (Though in one of my posts here I asked anyone who ran across the 649 PCR File to let me know).
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

@ KachiWachi : The CDROM disk that came w/ my CMD 649 card has drivers for : Alliance (At25); ALS 4000; ATI (Rageiic & Rage-Pro); CMD (648, 649, 649 Raid, & Medley Raid Software); Crystal (423x, 4280, & 4281); Ess (Ess 1869, & Solo1); High Point (Hpt 370); Ite (IT 887x); Midi (14 Pieces of music??); NetMOS (Nm9805, Nm9815, Nm9835, nm9835S, nm9845S, Nm9855m & Manual for them); nVidia (NT4.0, Win9x, & Win2K - 12.41 drivers); Opti (82c814); S3 (Savage3d, Savage4, Trio3d, & Trio3D2X); SiS (6215 & 6326); & Trident (9680, 9750, 9850, & 9880). Essentially a bunch of drivers for obsolete hardware.

As regards the CMD 649 what it has are a couple of read mes w/ the installation instructions, (both software & hardware), and the release notes.

I actually have two copies of the disk because I bought 2 of the cards. If you need any of that junk let me know.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
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SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi »

VIA 586b that I sent you (great e-mail add'y BTW...lol!)

I do not see anywhere in the manual (Rev. B+) that specifically states ATA/66...just that it will "support ATA/33 or ATA/66" drives. My DFI is supporting an ATA/100 drive...albeit at ATA-2 speeds... :roll:

Stop by SI and download the SiI0680A_SiIcfg-docs. The Medley Manual (Rev. 1.1) mentions the 649 and explains RAID, and the Medley GUI Utility. It contains jumper settings for both cards.

I also found this by searching "SiI 649" -> http://www.ekf.de/c/cide/ce1/ce1drv/

The win2k_installation_note.txt is of particular interest...

"Win2K Installation Note:

For Win2k driver installation, the user MUST hit F1 or F11 during driver installation as this forces the OS to recognize our device as IDE class instead of RAID class. Since we are using the native Microsoft IDE driver, we must force IDE class before the OS will correctly associate this driver with our controller since the board is commonly jumpered for RAID.

If you are trying to install the Win2k to the hard drive which is attached to SiI 648/649, you need to be sure that you press the F1 or F11 key during the installation process whenever the screen displays the message. This will enable the BIOS to set the 648/649 in IDE mode. However, after you finish the Win2k driver installation, you are no longer required to press the F1 OR F11 key.

When viewed in device manager, if the 649 device is in RAID class, delete the configuration from device from device manager and reboot. When the controller is hardware detected during boot, follow the procedure above for driver installation."

This article might also be of interest -> http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... -us;817472

Here is the chart I mentioned a few posts back for "MasterDeviceTimingMode" -

for PIO-0 (burners, very old HDDs...) -
for PIO-1 (burners, very old HDDs...) -
for PIO-2 (burners, very old HDDs...) -
for PIO-3 (burners, very old HDDs...) - 0x00008 h
for PIO-4 (burners, very old HDDs...) - 0x00010 h

for Multi-Word DMA Mode 1 (burners, very old HDDs...) -
for Multi-Word DMA Mode 2 (burners, very old HDDs...) - 0x00410 h

for Ultra ATA-16 (Mode 0) (CDROMs, DVDs, old HDDs...) -
for Ultra ATA-33 (Mode 2) (CDROMs, DVDs, old HDDs...) - 0x02010 h
for Ultra ATA-66 (Mode 4) (just HDDs) - 0x08010 h
for Ultra ATA-100 (Mode 5) (modern HDDs) - 0x10010 h
for Ultra ATA-133 (Mode 6) (ultra-modern HDDs) - 0x12010 h
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PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
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PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Post by Jim »

K, Right now can't do anything w/ any of that cause I am on Superpuppy 2 doing burnin. Superpuppy 3 is disconnected for now. (I only have one station for the time being. Will have to get new desk to change that.). When done burnin will check a few things and get back to you.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
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Post by Guest »

there is an simple and secure solution... with the hitachi feature tool (formerly ibm feature tool) you can limit the abilities directly on harddrive to udma-4 or udma-2 ... what you like ... its directly written in some permanent memory on harddisk...

http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
Jim wrote:Well, I know that the 2 WD 40 gig drives on my CMD 649 IDE controller card are running at "UDMA 0". Since the card is supposed to support ATA 100, and the drives are supposed to be capable of running "UDMA 5", what I would like to know, is how does one go about resetting things so that the drives run at "UDMA 4", which I believe would be the highest speed that all components are capable of.
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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi »

"Guest" has a point, but go get the WD tool for this instead.

I doubt you ever changed this, but it can't hurt to check it out.

EVEREST contains this data under "Storage -> ATA" as well.
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PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Post by Jim »

Kachi Wachi : Your brevity is commendable for most purposes; but when attempting to explain some technical point to me; (who regards "technicalese" as something akin to "Greek"), it is self defeating. What WD tool? - The only source I have that has specifically said : "UDMA 0" is Everest; that is how I know that I am getting UDMA 0. Other sources don't say anything.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
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Post by Guest »

as far as i know (and tested) the ibm/hitachi feature tools is very generic programmed ... works with every ata compatbile hdd... its also possible to set
the acoustic managment level, the powersaving level & more....

its really worth a look!
KachiWachi wrote:"Guest" has a point, but go get the WD tool for this instead.

I doubt you ever changed this, but it can't hurt to check it out.

EVEREST contains this data under "Storage -> ATA" as well.
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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi »

Western Digital's Data Lifeguard Tool, specifically the ATA Management utility.

Per their FAQ, all WD drives are shipped fully enabled, so that shouldn't be a concern for you Jim. But it would give you peace of mind, and eliminate at least one item from the troubleshoot list... :roll:
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PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
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PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Post by Jim »

Yes well it is quite possible that at least one of mine is no longer fully enabled - they were not acquired at the same time. The only WD software that I had at the time when I set up; (I did NOT have an internet connection then), was very old. 1993-94. So it is quite possible that one or both of the drives have been semi disabled.

Edit : I am going to download both "tools". Guest, the one you recommend, specifically because it has a noise reduction enabling / disabling feature. KachiWachi the one you recommend because my drives are WD. But according to WD there is no provision for noise reduction on these drives, therefore I would not expect their "tool" to be capable of enabling / disabling it.

Thank you gentlemen.
Last edited by Jim on Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
Jim
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Post by Jim »

KachiWachi wrote:What happens if you use the VIA Controller?

It is interesting that the DFI manual says ATA-33/66 (UDMA Modes 2 and 4) is supported, where the VIA manual says only ATA-33 is supported (it appears that the DFI manual is incorrect.)
He also said that the manual from which he got this information was that for the "VIA586B". (This manual only goes up to Revision 1)

Well Superpuppy 3, (my machine w/ the MVP3 chipset), is down right now; and the chipset has fans on it, so I had to dig out a spare board to check this. The DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B board chipset has : 1) VIA VT82C598MVP 0006CE; and 2) VIA VT82C596B 0006CE; which I believe is the MVP3 Revision 4. So maybe DFI wasn't pulling a fast one when they called it "/66". -- Unless, collectively those chips constitute a "VIA 586B" chipset. -- Me I am so ignorant of these things I don't know!! KachiWachi ? You probably know, what do you say? :?
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi »

The 596B SouthBridge was used with the Apollo Pro133 and 133A chipsets, and is ATA-66. It is compatible with the Apollo MVP3 NorthBridge. The 596A was used with the Apollo ProPlus chipset.

I have that datasheet as well...if you want it.

See -> http://users.erols.com/chare/chipsets.htm

Note that the motherboard manual shows a 596B, but that could have easily been a typo, so it was cool that you confirmed exactly what you have there with your spare motherboard.
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PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Post by Jim »

K, Thanks -- Done. "Q": Does this mean that The "kt133" PCR File that I have is applicable to these boards? Also in response to your "IDK"; Yes WPCredit does have safeguards built in. The changes effected are wiped by a reboot. They have to be re-enabled after every boot. Once you get them worked out, you use WPCRSet to automatically enable them at boot.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
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