ALi- "G"-chipset revision, K6+-series

Discussion relating to Socket 7 hardware.
DonPedro
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ALi- "G"-chipset revision, K6+-series

Post by DonPedro »

During the last weeks I was able to test the K6+ on a Jetway 542 mainboard, which features the infamous "G"-revision of the ali-5 chipset.

infamous because asus p5a boards from revision 1.06 and up (which use the "G"-revision chip) are told to not be able to run the K6+ cpus at decent speed.

I can now bring to protocol that it is not the fault of the "G"-rev chip that makes the p5a 1.06 and up so slow when a +-cpu is used, because the jetway 542 runs this kind of cpu at an expected speed level.

the drawback with the jetway board is that it is far less stable than the p5a-series. in order to run some benches scucessfully I had to lower some settings I am used to apply on the p5a boards without a hick. and this cutback is that big that the gain in memory performance achieved through the "G"-rev chip because of its working INTERNAL tag ram (compared to the "E"-rev.) is finally lost and sometimes scores even lower than a p5a 1.03/04. some benches still show the strength of the internal tag ram. all in all "a mixed bag" so to say.

I then got hold of a second asus p5a 1.06 mainboard (I already had one in use but did not want to play around with it). Jim gave me the hint that it might be possible to get this board working with a k6+ by flashing the mboard with an older bios version.

the board came with bios 1.07a and was not able to boot with a k6+ cpu installed, the screen stayed dark, no peep. so I had to replace the cpu with a standard k6-3 in order to flash the bios. the fact that bios 1.07 was not even able to accept the cpu should have been a telling thing to me but I put logic aside and flashed the bios down to version 1.05 (the devil was my advocate). the flashing procedure went through without a problem. the problem started at the next boot procedure with a bios message shown shortly before windows starts. it said "error! can't write to escd!". still the boot process continued and windows showed the desktop. everything seemed okay so I went on with replacing the cpu with the k6+. but on reboot the screen again stayed black, no peep. well, again exchanging cpus, starting for a new bios flash. this time I decided to go upwards with the bios version and tried to flash bios 1.08.001. I didn't got even the chance. when I started the flash-program, it warned me (white on red!) "flash protection switch is on!" and dismissed any "I don't care"-try.

some hours later and a dozens of webpages waded through I can conclude that I am in trouble. it will be best to buy an already flashed bios chip.


bad luck is all I have ......
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RE: ALi- "G"-chipset revision, K6+-series

Post by Jim »

The bios you should be using is the 1010. The 1011 is made for the K6-+ chips and that is what causes the slowdown. What I would do is put the non plus processor back in, clear the bios, (either w/ jumper or by pulling the battery for ten minutes or so) then use the old processor assuming you can get it working, to flash the bios to the 1010 version. If you need that one, I have it. Finally once you have the 1010 installed, contact "rls48j" to find out how to get the thing working right. HE KNOWS!!

EDIT : @ Peter : To try to clarify all this I will restate what I know. 1) rls48j is the only person I have heard of that has gotten a Rev 106 boartd working decently w/ a K6+ type processor. 2) He did NOT flash his bios to the 1011 version to do it; but instead used some older version. 3) Which version that was I have no idea. 4) The 1011 version is the version that was created to enable P5A boards and P5A-B boards to recognize and run K6+ processors; but for some reason it does not work properly w/ Rev 105 & 106 boards. 5) Therefore, if it were me, I would try the 1010 version. (The most recent before the 1011). 6) At this point, I think you would be best off to stop experimenting w/ it and get Cake and rls48j to give you knowledgeable help. DON'T be another "Saintly Cobra".
Last edited by Jim on Fri May 19, 2006 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Uranium235
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Post by Uranium235 »

Don't feel bad. I recently corrupted the BIOS on a P5A 1.06 attempting the same thing. I believe there may be some kind of hidden bootblock protection feature that corrupts the BIOS chip when flashing to an older version. Flashing Asus boards suck because they only like AFLASH or PFLASH which I don't always trust. I really like using Uniflash but could never get it to function on an Asus board.
You could try hot-flashing the corrupt chip on your other P5A or another socket 7 board with the same size BIOS chip.
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Post by DonPedro »

thanx for your replies, gentlemen.

I pm'ed cake and rls48j as suggested, hopefully.

before I start hotflashing I will give clearing the cmos a try, but according to all info on the web that seems to be doomed to fail.

regarding hotflashing: uranium please correct me if the procedure I have in mind is wrong! I start an other p5a with a bootable flex disk (prepared for flashing the bios). now comes the first tricky part: do I first start "aflash" to have it identify the currently working bios, prompting me for the bios-file and at this point continue with the tricky part #2 - removing the bios chip from the currrently running machine replacing it with the bad chip and then finally start the flashing or should I replace the bios chips before I start the flash program?

and does removing/inserting the bios chip while the system is running involve any risk to damage the electric circuitry of the board?
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Post by Jim »

The time I got stuck having to reboot in the middle of a bios flash, (thereby leaving the board unbootable), I got out of it by sticking in a Win98 bootdisk, bringing up the "A" prompt, then sticking in the bios flash disk and running my flash. Would mention that in that case there was some "F" key the flash routine wanted me to hold down; but every time I tried that, I lost my boot; and had to start over with the 98 Bootdisk. Finally I just ran the flash without holding down the :F" key. Got lucky and it worked. Still; strongly recommend follow Cake's advice on getting your board working vis a vis getting the bios functioning properly, and follow rls48j's advice on both which bios to use; and how to get the board working properly w/ a K6-+ in it.
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DonPedro
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Post by DonPedro »

@jim
"....recommend follow Cake's advice on getting your board working.." I am a little bit confused. did I miss some post from cake or are you anticipating a yet to come answer by cake?
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RE: ALi- "G"-chipset revision, K6+-series

Post by cake »

I haven't gotten the P5A rev 1.06 to work properly with a + cpu myself and atm it's somewhere in my apt busy being dead.
I did try the same
stuff as DonPedro, flashing most versions of the BIOS available to no avail.

In regards to the hot-flashing issue, I had success using an old TX based board that had the same size for the flash chip.
But that was back in 2001 when Uniflash had best support on Intel chipsets, dunno what the case is today though.
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Jim
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RE: ALi- "G"-chipset revision, K6+-series

Post by Jim »

There was another guy who got into trouble w/ a bios flash, long time ago. Cake step by stepped him out of it. Read the old posts on bios probs.
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Post by DonPedro »

today I wanted to try the hotflash procedure. since the removal of the bios chip can comfortingly only be done with some special tool I could not carry out the task. I will try to get such a tool tomorrow from my nearby pc-shop and will let you know how things worked out.
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Post by Jim »

I don't know exactly what your problem is; but if I understand you correctly you are stuck w/ the 1005 version bios, and can't flash to a newer one for some unknown reason. Not sure that a hotflash is going to help that situation, though it might. But if I were you, I would leave that for a last resort. I will try to find the instructions Cake gave that other guy for you. I don't think Cake read the thread very carefully, because he seems to think that the problem is that you can't get the + processor working properly, as opposed to you can't flash your bios to the version you want.

Edit : K, found it. Page 4 of this forum , 4th topic. Bios flash gone bad, Cake sorted it out for him, might work for you. He also gave instructions for hot flashing.
Last edited by Jim on Sun May 21, 2006 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
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Post by Jim »

K, Peter, I found Cake's instructions. See post above.
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DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
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2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
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Post by DonPedro »

ok, thank you jim!

unfortunately the link cake gave to some recovery.pdf file on amptrons website does no longer exist. this one was about regathering the bios bootblock which helped the guy in trouble.

I looked around on amptron's website if they had placed the file to another place but with no avail.

so I probably will go the hotflash route.

but even after consulting cake's advices in the thread you suggested I am still not sure about the order of doing the most important steps (he said nothing about that special moment during the process):

should I start the flash program before I switch chips so that it reads out the data of the "good" chip or after? I think the right way is to do start it before, because otherwise it would see the bad chip and would complain about the "protection switch" and that is what I want to avoid. right?
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Post by Jim »

Better ask Cake. Short of Jan Stuenebrink, (who is also a member here, - though he rarely posts), Cake knows more about bios than most. Could also e-mail Jan Steunebrink if you are willing to go that route, he is the recognized expert. Could also try asking Cake if he has a copy of that PDF file he could give you.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
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Uranium235
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Post by Uranium235 »

DonPedro, here is a link to the hotflash procedure I've used:
http://www.rainbow-software.org/hardware/hotflash.html
Rainbow, who is the author, is very reputable and a regular at Wimsbios.com forums. He also wrote the Uniflash utility.
Rainbow insists on performing the hotflash procedure on a working motherboard supported by Uniflash. I believe the P5A or Asus boards are not supported by Uniflash. Your best bet may be to use an MVP3 based motherboard, with a 2MB BIOS chip to perform the hotflash.
You will launch the flash utility after the bad chip is inserted. You just need to be booted to a DOS command prompt before installing the bad chip. Note the direction of the chip in the socket. The chip has a key on one side. Make sure you loosen the BIOS chip in the working motherboard before powering up to make it easy to remove after the power is on.
I'm not a BIOS authority but I have performed the hotflash several times and it does work.
Peace and good luck.
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Post by cake »

This is basically the same info as that in the missing Amptron doc.

http://www.biosman.com/biosrecovery.html

If you're going to hotflash take Uranium235's advice on selecting a proper
mobo, also note that the Asus P5A uses a large sized chip than most other
SS7 mobos and it does matter.
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