I need to know how to go about upgrading my AMD (K6) 3D

KachiWachi · Post by **KachiWachi** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:37 am

Chris Hare's charts list all of these CPU's -

http://users.erols.com/chare/586.htm

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec_pentium.htm

lazy_kalabok · Post by **lazy_kalabok** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:47 am

but on the other side ... not all.
have a look in here:

http://www.pc-atrium.de/Zu_den_CPUs/AMD ... _k6-3.html

the 500anz does exist, i have seen pictures of it ... lol
the 500 apz (!!!) - wow, no idea.
and the "king" (maybe, if not a tale) - the 550anz.

so - do someone own these ones? can you post a picture?

DonPedro · Post by **DonPedro** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:15 pm

yes, the 500 anz exists, received one this week ....

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:51 pm

I think it is safe to say that an ACZ is going to be better than an ATZ if you test enough samples; but the ANZ I am not sure about. It depends I suppose on what voltage they actually require to reach their rated speed. Given that they are rated at 1.8v, the question becomes : What does that rating mean? Is it the maximum voltage at which AMD would warranty them to work? (i.e. exceed that voltage and you void your warranty), or is it the voltage at which they are guaranteed to be able to reach 500MHz? - or is it both? ACZs are rated for 2.0v. Does that mean they are rated to be able to withstand .2v more than an ANZ? or does it mean they are rated to require .2v more than an ANZ? You have to know the answers to those questions to be able to definitively state which is the better processor. SP3's 450ACZ will clock 550MHz @ 1.6v. If that is typical of ACZs, unless an ANZ will clock the same speed at a lower voltage, there is no advantage to the 1.8v rating.

Because there is a range of ACZs, and apparantly at least two varieties of ANZ, I am inclined to think that the voltage rating is what the processor is guaranteed to withstand; though I could easily be wrong. Cost is the givaway. The more expensive the better is a good rule of thumb.

KachiWachi; have you got any input on this?

KachiWachi · Post by **KachiWachi** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:40 am

AMD-K6-III/xxxpvt where -

xxx = Operating Frequency
p = Package Type
v =Operating Voltage
t = Maximum Case Temperature

For p -
A = 321-pin PGA

For v -
C = 1.9V - 2.1V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
N = 1.7V - 1.9V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
T = 1.5V - 1.7V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)

For t -
Z = 0° C - 85° C

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:45 am

That does not answer the question. What does "Operating Voltage" mean? Given the case of say a K6-3+500ACZ vs A K6-3+500ANZ the one is rated at an operating voltage of 2.0v and the other at an operating voltage of 1.8v.

1) Does that mean that some samples of the former may require 2.0v in order to reach 500MHz? and that some samples of the latter may require 1.8v in order to reach 500MHz? If that it what it means then the ANZ is the better processor.
2) Alternately does it mean that all samples of the former are rated to be capable of withstanding 2.0v? and that all samples of the latter are rated to be capable of withstanding 1.8v? If that is what it means then the ACZ is the better processor.

I don't know the answer to that question, because I am by no means an expert on the subject of computers. But I would like to know, because it (Edit-would) clear up a fair bit of confusion as to which are the best K6-3+ processors. e.g. There are some people who believe that a 400 ATZ, (1.6v), is better than a 450 ACZ, (2.0v), but statisically they are wrong from what I have seen re what voltage it takes to get them to clock 600MHz. i.e. I have heard of more 400 ATZs having problems getting to 600MHz than I have heard of 450 ACZs having problems doing that.

Stedman5040 · Post by **Stedman5040** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:04 am

I have a few K6+ cpu's of differring varieties as follows

1x K6-3+/400ACZ
1x K6-3+/400ATZ
4x K6-3+/450ACZ
1x K6-3+/500ANZ

Neither of the 400's I have reach 600 at 2.1V stable. All of the 450's reach 600 at 2.1v or less. One example gets to 600 at 1.85v stable and two of the others need 2.0v to 2.05v. The 500ANZ also needs 2.0v to get to 600 stable. However with the 500 I can get to 618 at the same 2.0v. My 450's will not get into windows at 2.0v set to 618. I have not tried them all at 2.1v. I think with all examples of these cpu's it is just the luck of the draw as to how well they will overclock or undervolt for that matter. My 400ATZ will run quite happily at 1.4v at 400Mhz for instance. It will run at 550 at 1.85v, but will not make it to 600 at all without crashing at 2.1v.

Stedman

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:31 am

As a matter of interest Tony, do you know what voltage your 400 ACZ requires to run quite happily at 400? Since those two give the most direct comparison, (two differnt types of 400), although it would be only a single case, it would be interesting to know which of the two requires a lower voltage to attain any given speed.

KachiWachi · Post by **KachiWachi** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:57 am

The "C" rating is defined as "Standard Power", while the "N" and "T" ratings are defined as "Low Power". These CPU's (Low Power) are designed for embedded applications.

The stated voltage is what AMD expects you to run VCore at (2.0V, 1.8V, and 1.6V Nominal).
3.3V I/O would be considered Nominal for this item.

A range is given because nothing is perfect.

(+/- 0.1V for VCore. V I/O is less critical.)

Absolute Maximum is a different specification wherein the CPU will run at this voltage, but with decreased life expectancy.

Note that with lower VCore, you will pull less current for the same MHz.

See -> http://www.amd.com/epd/processors/6.32b ... 23543a.pdf

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:31 pm

Now that was intertesting and informative. It seems that within allowances for variations in manufacture, PG288, the Low Power ones, (ATZ, APZ, ANZ), will all do the same speed, (in MHz), at the same voltage, with the same power consumption. Pg292. Just some are rated for higher speed than others.

As far as the Standard Power ones, only the ACR is mentioned. PG288. Where that leaves the ACZ, which definitely does not need a minimum of 1.9v to operate in the range of 400 to 550 MHz I dont know. Would be interesting to see a data sheet that includes the ACZ.

I am beginning to think Stedman is right about it being potluck as to what any given processor will do, though you would think that some types would on average be better than others given equal speed ratings.

KachiWachi · Post by **KachiWachi** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:19 am

These would be embedded CPU's (K6-IIIE).

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:33 am

Then we are back to wondering which is better ACZ or ANZ given equal speed rating.

lazy_kalabok · Post by **lazy_kalabok** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:02 am

actually im wondering if the 550anz exists ... kachiwachi´s site claims it does not.
i do own the 500acr. it does 575 @ 2.0V, but not 600 even at 2.4 ...

stedman (or donpedro) - are you able to clock the anz to 618 at nominal voltage (1,8V)?

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:41 pm

Stedman said he needed 2.0v to get his ANZ up to 600; but that the same 2.0v would get it up to 618.

Stedman5040 · Post by **Stedman5040** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:50 pm

Here are the results of undervolting the K6-III+400ATZ and the 400ACR version. Both of these cpu's are of the embedded variety one being the low power version (7.1W) and the other the standard power version (11.75W). The test was quite basic but I deemed a pass as being able to run superpi 1M in windows me without any faults.

The 400ATZ which runs at the nominal voltage of 1.6 will run quite happily at 1.3V. This little chap might even run at lower than this but I can't test it. At 1.3V it would be dissipating less then 5W.

The 400ACR which runs at a nominal voltage of 2.0 ran at the 1.6V setting designated for the ATZ. It ran at 1.4V as well but it would not fire up at 1.3V. At 1.35v it got into Windows but would not run Superpi 1M.

So the ATZ is the undervolting champion in this battle. Not that a 0.6V undervolt can be said to be bad for the ACR variety.

The Embedded cpu data sheets are available on the AMD site. there is one for the K6-2E+ and one for the K6-IIIE+. There is a K6-2E+/350AUZ has anyone ever seen one?

Stedman