K6-2 "Server" Build Suggestions

Discussion relating to Socket 7 hardware.
thon0925
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K6-2 "Server" Build Suggestions

Post by thon0925 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:51 pm

I have an old HP Pavilion 4533 with an Asus P5S-VM board. I plan to use it as a light-duty server (mostly file serving, but a private mediawiki setup would be nice). From what I gathered so far, the fastest proc I gould get for this board would be a K6-III, due to the extra cache. I have a k6-II @ 550MHz, so would getting a K6-III make a noticeable difference? And could it still operate at 133MHz FSB? I've tried getting the board to do 133MHz, but can't get it to POST with the jumpers set to that clock speed. I've set tRCD to 3T, disabled external cache and set the onboard VGA to disabled with no luck. Am I missing something, or could it simply be lower quality RAM causing the issues? Also, am I correct in saying the board supports a maximum of 768MB (3x256) of RAM? And will the board POST with onboard disabled and no PCI graphics installed. A headless setup would be fine if the board will support it.

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Uranium235
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Post by Uranium235 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:29 am

I have a k6-II @ 550MHz, so would getting a K6-III make a noticeable difference?
Yes
And could it still operate at 133MHz FSB?
Yes but you would need to lower the multiplier to keep the CPU operating near its rated speed.
I've tried getting the board to do 133MHz, but can't get it to POST with the jumpers set to that clock speed. I've set tRCD to 3T, disabled external cache and set the onboard VGA to disabled with no luck. Am I missing something, or could it simply be lower quality RAM causing the issues?
Could be several things going on, poor RAM, not lowering the multiplier enough when increasing the FSB, the original HP BIOS, tired motherboard, weak power supply, etc........
Also, am I correct in saying the board supports a maximum of 768MB (3x256) of RAM?
Yes

And will the board POST with onboard disabled and no PCI graphics installed.
No, you will need a PCI video card installed with the onboard video disabled. This board is unstable at the 133FSB with the onboard graphics enabled. You need a PCI video card to run at 133 FSB.

thon0925
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Post by thon0925 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:57 pm

Thanks for the quick reply. So, if I wanted to go all out, would the best proc for the system be an AMD-K6-III+/500ACZ Mobile? (It's the fastest K6-III I could find) And is there some sort of trade-off between processor speed and board speed? When I set the board to 133, I had to set the multiplier from X4.5 to X4, which lowered the clock speed a bit compared to when I was running the board at 124mhz with the multiplier set to X4.5.

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Uranium235
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Post by Uranium235 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:55 am

So, if I wanted to go all out, would the best proc for the system be an AMD-K6-III+/500ACZ Mobile?
Yes, but you will have to flash the motherboards BIOS to recognize the K6-III+ CPU or it will not work with it. A regular K6-3 450 likely would not require a BIOS flash.

And is there some sort of trade-off between processor speed and board speed?
The higher memory bandwidth that the 133 FSB gives you more than makes up for any lost CPU clocks when you drop the multiplier.

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Post by Jim » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:05 pm

A K6-3+ 450 ACZ should do just as well as a K6-3+500 ACZ. These are VERY overclockable processors, up to about 600 MHz. After that it gets a bit trickier, with individual processor quality, cooling considerations, etc. all playing a part. Good quality RAM is a VERY good idea too. DO NOT USE "Buffalo Select" or "MT" RAM if you want it to run problem free.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
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Stedman5040
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Post by Stedman5040 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:10 am

Some other things to consider.

1. Whilst running a K6-2 cpu you would be better to run at a FSB where the onboard cache is enabled as the K6-2 has no (on cpu) L2 cache.

2. Disabling the onboard cache will also slow down memory access performance for the K6-2. I guess that the cache size for the P5S-VM L2 is 512k which only caches 64Mb of RAM. For a K6-III, K6-III+ or K6-2+ this is not an issue and all of the RAM is cached.

Have you been able to run the fsb stable at 133MHz yet?

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Post by Jim » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:11 pm

One other item worth considering is besides aiming for 4 x 133 MHz FSB = 600 MHz Overall speed, you should also try 5.5 x 112 MHz FSB = 616 MHz overall speed. I know that the lower FSB will cost some performance; BUT for some reason the 5.5 multip[lier works best with K6-3+ processors, (I suspect that these processors have been somehow optimized to work best with the 5.5 multiplier), and you get considerably better memory write performance with the 5.5 multiplier than you do with others, and somewhat better memory read performance too.

So ideally what you should do is try both of those configurations, and run tests on the machine with it set up both ways to see which gives you better peformance.
Last edited by Jim on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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Post by KenB » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:46 am

BUT for some reason the 5.5 multip[lier works best with K6-3+ processors, (I suspect that these processors have been somehow optimized to work best with the 5.5 multiplier),
Hey Jim, does this also apply to regular K6-III's also?

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Post by Jim » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:38 pm

Ken, I don't know the answer to that question, BUT I would guess probably it is yes. You would have to test it to see. Following are a number of test results from tests that I ran on two of my machines. The VIA machine was running an XP PRO / 98 SE dualboot with the tests run under XP which gave better results than 98SE. The VIA Machine was also tweaked with WPCredit. If you read these tests carefully it is VERY clear that the 5.5 multiplier works way better than the others.

VIA Chipset Board

550 MHz @ 1.6v. (Less than that caused various failures)
Everest :
Memory Read = 301 MBs (As good as I have ever gotten from this machine)
Memory Write = 156 MBs (Previous best @ 600 w/ K6Speed was 143 MBs)
Memory Latency = 214.2
Sandra :
Int MMX = 201 (Previous best @ 600 w/ K6Speed was 198)
Float FPU = 201 (As good as I have ever gotten from this machine)

600 MHz @ 1.9v. (Less than that caused various failures)
Everest :
Memory Read = 300 MBs (1 Less than the 550 MHz score?)
Memory Write = 136 MBs (20 Less than the 550 score!!??)
Memory Latency = 214.6
Sandra :
Int MMX = 196 (5 Less than the 550 MHz score)
Float FPU = 200 (1 less than the 550 Mhz score)

K6-3+ 450ACZ @ 5.5 x 100 MHz @ 2.0v.
Everest :
Memory Read = 301 (Still best ever)
Memory Write = 158 (Better than ever)
Memory Latency 214.5
Sandra :
Int MMX = 208 (New Record)
Float FPU = 206 (New Record)

K6-3+ 450ACZ @ 5.5 x 100 MHz.@ 2.0 v. Raised to 6 x 100 MHz by K6Speed
Everest :
Memory Read = 301
Memory Write = 143
Memory Latency = 212.2
Sandra :
Int MMX = 206
Float FPU = 206

Edit : 13/08/05 5:22 PM - New Test Results for Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450ACZ @ 2.0 v. @ 5.5 x 100 MHz w/ latest WP Credit tweaks.
Everest :
Memory Read = 303
Memory Write = 158
Memory Latency = 211.8
Sandra :
Int MMX = 210
Float FPU = 208

Edit : 13/08/05 4:43 PM - New Test Results for Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450ACZ @ 2.0v. @ 5.5 x 100 Mhz Raised to 6 x 100MHz by K6Speed w/ same WPCredit tweaks as above:
Everest :
Memory Read = 303
Memory Write = 145
Memory latency = 213.5
Sandra :
Int MMX = 209
Float FPU = 207

Edit : 24/10/05 7:03 AM - New Test results for Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450ACZ @ 2.1v. @ 5.5 X 103.2 MHz w/ CPU Cool w/ same WP Credit tweaks as above.
Everest :
Memory Read = 312
Memory Write = 164
Memory Latency = 206.4
Sandra :
Int MMX = 213; 214; 216; 216; 216.
Float FPU = 212; 213; 214; 215; 214.

This has got me puzzled. Anybody out there know what is going on?

Edit : 14/08/05 2:57 AM - New Test Results for Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450ACz @ 2.0 v. @ 6 x 103 MHz w/ CPU Cool otherwise same as above.
Everest :
Memory Read = 312
Memory Write = 149
Memory Latency = ?
Sandra : Caused Crash - stability problem @ 2.0v.

EDIT : 24/10/05 8:02 AM New test results on Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450ACZ @ 2.1 v. @ 5.5 x 103.2 MHz w/ CPU Cool, raised to 6 x 103.2 MHz by K6Speed w/ same WP Credit tweaks as above.
Everest :
Memory Read = 312
Memory Write = 150
Memory Latency = 202.1
Sandra :
Int MMX = 214; 215; 215.
Float FPU = 213; 214; 213.

ALI Chipset Board

The ALI Cjhipset board was NOT tweaked with WPCredit, because My ALI board was called unmatched by WPCredit when I loaded the PCR files, so I didn't use WPCredit. Instead I used PowerTweak 2.
K6-3+ 450 ACZ @ 550 MHz @ 2.1 v.
Everest :
Memory Read = 317 MBs
Memory Write = 153 MBs
Memory Latency = 201.8 ns
Sandra :
Int MMX = 198
Float FPU = 195

Then I used K6Speed to raise the multiplier to 6x

K6-3 450 ACZ @ 600 Mhz @ 2.1v
Everest :
Memory Read = 318 MBs
Memory Write = 140 MBs
Memory Latency = 204.2 ns
Sandra :
Int MMX = 196
Float FPU = 193

Edit : Superpuppy 2 is now back up as my first attempt at OCing the FSB:
For detailed specs see Superpuppy 2 post. Generally K6-3+ 450 ACZ on ASUS P5A-B Rev 104 @ 5.5 x 105 MHz = 577 MHz (For Now).
Everest :
Memory Read = 340
Memory Write = 165
Memory latency = 194.7
Sandra : - (Because Sandra results rise with successive testing, I ran the tests repeatedly until the results started to taper off)
Int MMX : 196, 197, 212, 215, 222, 224, 223.
Float FPU : 195, 201, 212, 217, 221, 220, 220.

K6-3+ 450 ACZ @ 2.1v. @ 5.5x105 (577 MHz) (raised to 630 MHz by K6Speed), on ASUS P5A-B Rev 104
Everest :
Memory Read = 336 MB/s
Memory Write = 141 MB/s
Memory Latency = 197.5 ns
Sandra :
Int MMX : 195, 195, ***, 212, 217, 219, 218.
Float FPU: 195, 200, ***, 213, 216, 215, 215.
*** = Test Failed over half way through. Popup window : "This Program Has Performed a Diseased Avian Operation And Will Now Close". Sandra closed but other than that things were ok.

What all this confirms is that there is a definite performance advantage tied to using the 5.5 Multiplier unadjusted. Obviously something has been optimized to work best w/ the 5.5 multiplier. Question is : What? If it is the processor, there is nothing that can be done about it. If on the other hand it is something on the Mobo then WPCredit may be able to re-optimize it to work best w/ the 2x multiplier, or the software remappers. Whatever it is, it mainly affects Memory Write. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Cake, you out there? How about you KachiWachi?

K, Latest results with Superpuppy 2, (wish I had a webcam so I could prove this, - it's wild!), Ready for this?
Superpuppy 2: K6-3+ 450 ACZ @ 5.5x105 MHz on ASUS P5A-B Rev 104 w/ 1011 005 German Bios
Everest :
Memory Read = 335 MB/s
Memory Write = 185 MB/s !!!!!
Memory Latency = 202.1 ns

What is wild about that is the Everest Memory Write for a Celeron 900 is 180MB/s

What did I do to achieve that? Nothing. Unhooked Superpuppy 3 because of LAN problems, and hooked up Superpuppy 2 to see if that had any affect on the LAN problems. (Still there w/ minor variations). Bored so ran Everest.

Settings, = Customized Powertweak 2.

Powertweak 2 Processor Settings :
Write Allocation = Enabled.
Write Combining For VGA Framebuffer = Disabled.
Write Combining For VGA Banked Memory = Disabled.
Data Prefetch = Enabled.
Weak Write Ordering = Disabled.

Powertweak 2 ALi Chipset Settings :
Use M1541 internal TAG RAM = Disabled.
Use M1541 internal MESI = Enabled.
Cyrix Burst Mode & K6 Write Allocation = Enabled.
Cyrix Linear Burst Order = Disabled.
L2 TAG Output Delay = Enabled.
CPU Single Read Cycle L2 cache Allocation = Enabled.
Dynamic Write Back = Enabled.
Pipeline Function Control = Disabled !!!
Write Combining For VGA Fixed Framebuffer = Disabled.
Write Combining For Linear Framebuffer = Disabled.
SDRAM CAS Latency = 2 Clocks.
SDRAM RASJ Precharge Time = 2 Clocks.
SDRAM RASJ Cycle Time = 9 Clocks.
A.G.P. Side Band Addressing = Enabled.
A.G.P. Transfer Rate = 2x.

That is the best "Everest Memory Write" result that I have ever heard of for a Super 7, though maybe people clocking much higher may get better. It is something to do w/ the 5.5 multiplier, that much is certain. Frankly doubt if I can duplicate it. Probably just a fluke; but there it is.
(Previous best Memory Write on this machine was 165 MB/s)

Having installed three 256 Meg sticks of Hynix HYM71V32635HCT8P-K, (PC133 CL2), in Superpuppy 2, I decided to see if I could get 112 MHz FSB stable.

Superpuppy 2 : ASUS P5A-B Rev 104 w/ K6-3+ 450 ACZ @ 5.5 x 112 MHz @ 2.3v. w/ mobo cache enabled. (First attempt; - has gone well, will try to reduce to 2.2v. later).
Everest :
Memory Read = 361 MB/s
Memory Write = 177 MB/s
Memory Latency = 182.8 ns

Sandra :
Performance Rating (Estimated) = 740
Arithmetic = 1521 D ALU MIPS ; 731 W FPU MFLOPS.
Multimedia = 3544 INT MMX ; 4217 FLOAT 3D NOW!
Memory Bandwidth : (Run repeatedly on account of rising results)
INT MMX : 210 ; 213 ; 229 ; 231 ; 238 ; 241 ; 240.
FLOAT FPU : 210 ; 216 ; 228 ; 234 ; 237 ; 237 ; 237.
Cache & Memory Bandwidth : 1164 - 2k ; 1179 - 4k ; 1183 - 8k ; 1164 - 16k ; 1120 - 32k ; 1036 - 64k ; 915 - 128k ; 630 - 256k ; 268 - 512k ; 236 - 1Meg ; 236 - 4Meg ; 235 - 16Meg ; 237 - 64 Meg ; 236 - 256Meg.

Rerunning Everest AFTER Sandra gave the following results :
Memory Read = 365 MB/s
Memory Write = 201 MB/s
Memory Latency = 184.3 ns

All tests run under WIN98-SE ; w/ Power Tweak 2's tweaks ; w/ : CAS Latency = 2T ; RAS to CAS Delay = 2T ; RAS Precharge = 2T ; RAS Active Time = 6T ; Row Cycle Time = 9T. - & my usual mess of 10 taskbar items running.

King V's Reply

Wow, what the heck am I doing wrong with my system then?

Using Everest Home Edition, version 1.51.195:

K6-2+ 450MHz oc to 500, undervolt to 1.9V core
Memory Read: 176MB/s
Memory Write: 83MB/s
Memory Latency: 376.8ns

I've got a 128MB stick of Crucial PC100 CL2 RAM, and a 64MB stick of another brand (unknown) also PC100 CL2.

I thought I had my BIOS settings set right . . but maybe not?

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FIC PA-2103 E-O036, K6-2+ 450 2.0V @ 500 1.9V
FIC PA-2013 E-O036, K6-III 450 2.2V @ 500
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Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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Post by Jim » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:58 pm

So, Has anybody tried the 5.5 multiplier and run tests to see if they get better performance using it than whatever multiplier they had previously been using ? I think you will get the best performance using the 5.5 multiplier with the highest FSB you can get to work reliably. -- Comments ?
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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soyoboy
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Post by soyoboy » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:02 am

I recently bought a new CPU,AMD K6-2+/570ACZ, from New Jersey. It cost $30 after shipping to Canada. It was expensive compared to the non plus 533MHz, new at $13. Apparently, the K6-2 CPUs are still around and available at retail markets.

The following benchmarks are performed on a Soyo SY-5EMA+ V1.0 flashed with an updated BIOS, 1EA1. ECC was enabled to improve RAM reliability but at a slight performance cost. I had both the plus version and non plus version of the K6-2 installed on the motherboard with the same components and software. The AMD K6-2/533AFX could be clocked to 600MHz (6.0x100MHZ) @ 2.6V. And it showed no degradation in the memory benchmarks compared a clock setting of 550MHz (5.5x100MHz) @ 2.2V.

I used SysId 2.0a and Sandra 2001 Standard running in Windows 2000 SP4.

Once the AMD K6-2+/570ACZ was installed. The same benchmarks were run.

AMD K6-2+ 615.68MHz (5.5x111.94MHz) @ 2.0V
SysId CPU 630 MEM 599/603
Sandra:

Code: Select all

Dhrystone ALU.............1549 MIPS
Whetstone FPU.............745 MFLOPS
Integer MMX................1943 it/s
Floating-Point 3DNow!...2717 it/s
Int ALU/RAM................163 MB/s
Float FPU/RAM..............166 MB/s
AMD K6-2+ 671.65MHz (6.0x111.94Mhz) @ 2.2V
SysId CPU 691 MEM varies from 583/587 to 587/591
Sandra:

Code: Select all

Dhrystone ALU.............1691 MIPS
Whetstone FPU.............814 MFLOPS
Integer MMX................2121 it/s
Floating-Point 3DNow!...2966 it/s
Int ALU/RAM................[color=green]163 MB/s[/color]
Float FPU/RAM..............[color=green]166 MB/s[/color]
Running CyberLink PowerDVD 6.0 with the K6-2+ 672MHz shows inaccurate decoding calculations of MPEG2 data. When the CPU I/O subsystem is not being utilized, such as GAMES and 3D benchmarks, then the computer runs perfectly. Setting the same CPU with the 5.5 multiplier (616MHz) creates more stability in the CPU I/O subsystem. Perfect runs of properly decoded MPEG2 data are then possible. The RAM has ECC enabled and no RAM errors arise. But the CPU I/O subsystem does degrade with use of the 6.0 multiplier. The voltage for the I/O is set automatically by the BIOS. I suspect that the voltage powering the CPU I/O subsystem is inadequate.

Jim might be able to test what happens when the I/O voltage is changed on the P5A-B. As the dip switch setting exists on that motherboard.

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Post by Jim » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:56 am

Well, I am surprized that you got better results using the 6x multiplier, cause I never did. Re testing my P5A-B with different IO voltage, I haven't messed with that, because ASUS boards, (at least they used to, and might still for all I know), overvolt everything. That is to say that the actual voltage is always higher than that stated, which I suspect is something ASUS did to improve normal reliability, though it may reduce the life of their boards.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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soyoboy
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Post by soyoboy » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:38 pm

Jim wrote:Well, I am surprized that you got better results using the 6x multiplier, cause I never did.
I tried to highlight the CPU/RAM access scores. Those scores are worse/lower with the 6.0x multiplier than with the 5.5x multiplier. Just as shown by Jim's tests, the numbers for the CPU I/O subsystem are also very erratic with that higher multiplier. But the 5.5x multiplier produces a system with non wavering scores. Also MPEG2 encoding produces noticeable errors with the higher clock frequency even with ECC turned on.

Try playing a movie with the 6.0x multiplier and watch for solid filled squares on a K6 plus CPU! Those effects are not present on a standard non plus K6.
Jim wrote:Re testing my P5A-B with different IO voltage, I haven't messed with that, because ASUS boards, (at least they used to, and might still for all I know), overvolt everything. That is to say that the actual voltage is always higher than that stated, which I suspect is something ASUS did to improve normal reliability, though it may reduce the life of their boards.
I had a P5A that would over volt all the voltage settings by 0.5V. As stated above, it indeed died. The surfaced mounted capacitors near the CPU turned into dust. I cannibalized all the jumpers and the rest went into the dump.

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soyoboy
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Post by soyoboy » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:01 am

For those who are interested. This is the K6-2+/570ACZ.

And this is the belly of the beast that drives it.
Attachments
soyostation.jpg
Soyo SY-5EMA+ inside a NZXT Hush 2.
soyostation.jpg (148.04 KiB) Viewed 8082 times
K62P570ACZ.jpg
AMD K6-2+/570ACZ as received from a New Jersey warehouse.
K62P570ACZ.jpg (47.97 KiB) Viewed 8082 times

Jim
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Post by Jim » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:51 pm

Nice looking toy there. If you would like a K6-3+ 450 ACZ, or a K6-3+ 500 ANZ, (either but not both), I can send you one because I have more K6-3+ processors than I need. Note : Both types of processor are good for 600 + MHz @ 2.1 V.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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