A sadly sluggish system.

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Guigui111
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A sadly sluggish system.

Post by Guigui111 » Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:48 pm

Much to my chagrin, I don't own an AMD k6-2+ or 3+. I only own an AMD K6-2 500mzh. My systerm is dragging. It is very sluggish when compared to similar systems. <br><br>I score 448 on 3dmark, and about 19 on winbench99. According to 3dmark, I should be getting scores around 1200 ish. <br><br>I've re-installed windows 98SE and continue to get these sluggish scores. I've played around with my ALI AGP drivers, updated the P5A-b bios to version 1011-b, updated the AGP drivers, am using the Nvidia drivers, and all that.<br><br>I replaced my soundcard (and old ISA one) with a new PCI Audigy and have noted a slight increase in frame rate, but not much.<br><br>All my AGP settings in my bios are Enabled.. Passive release, Turbo Mode, Delayed transaction, etc... I've basically tweaked my system as fast as it can go, and I seem to keep running into an odd speed bottleneck. It's like having a 4 cylinder engine and taking out the sparkplugs out of 2 of them.<br><br>The one thing that DID strike me was that, whether I enabled or disabled my "external" cache (which I believe is the L2), 3dmark2000 doesn't see a difference - it still registers it at 0. I'm wondering if there is another way to check up on this (on bootup, system reports 512kb in the info box). My theory is that maybe the "cache switch" is not working in the bios select screen. In which case, I may have to use a software bios modifier. <br><br>I currently have 512mb of ram, and heard that the max cacheable is 128mb. However systems with even less onboard cache (like my celeron 400 which has 128kb) run almost twice the framerate.<br><br>Here is my system info, as found in 3dmark2001SE<br><br>Chipset ----------------------------------------<br>Manufacturer:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp AMD<br>Family:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp K6-2<br>Internal Clock:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 501 MHz<br>Internal Clock Maximum:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 501 MHz<br>External Clock:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0 Hz<br>Socket Designation:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <br>Type:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <unknown><br>Upgrade:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <unknown><br>Capabilities:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp MMX, RDTSC, 3DNow!<br>Version:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp N/A<br>CPUID:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0x0000058c<br><br>Cache -----------------------------------------<br>Level:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1 <br>Capacity:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 64 KB<br>Level:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2 <br>Capacity:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0 bytes<br><br>3D accelerator info -----------------------------<br>Description:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Primary Display Driver<br>Manufacturer:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp NVIDIA<br>Name:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400<br>Total Local Video Memory:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 64 MB<br>Total Local Texture Memory:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 96 MB<br>Total AGP Memory:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 56 MB<br>Display Driver:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp nvdisp.drv<br>Display Driver Version:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4.13.01.1462<br>Driver WHQL Certified:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp No<br>Max Texture Width :&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2048 <br>Max Texture Height:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2048 <br>Max User Clipping Planes:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0 <br>Max Active Hardware Lights:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 8 <br>Max Texture Blending Stages:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 8 <br>Textures In Single Pass:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2 <br>Vertex Shader Version:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp N/A<br>Pixel Shader Version:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp N/A<br>Max Vertex Blend Matrices:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0 <br>Max Texture Coordinates:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 8 <br>Vendor ID:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0x10de<br>Device ID:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0x0110<br>Sub-System ID:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0x40311043<br>Revision:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0xb2<br><br>Motherboard Info ---------------------------<br>Manufacturer: Asus&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <br>Model: &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp P5A-B&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <br>Version:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp N/A<br>BIOS Vendor:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Award<br>BIOS Version:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG<br>BIOS Release Date:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 02/24/00<br>BIOS Properties:&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp <br><br>- I removed all ISA cards.<br><br>If anyone knows about this weird kind of behavior please let me know. I can't tell right now if it's a "video card" issue, or a "CPU" issue.<br><br>Thanks!!<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

georgep1
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Re: A sadly sluggish system.

Post by georgep1 » Fri Aug 02, 2002 8:00 pm

You can check the onboard L2 cache by starting SiSoft Sandra, and looking under the System Chipset information of the Mainboard Information module. Mine on my Epox MVP3G5 says 2048 kB pipeline-burst-write-thru.<br><br>Try the 12.90 nvidia drivers (downloadable from www.guru3d.com) and see if they help any. Drivers after 12.90 suffer performance hits on AGP GF cards with Super7 systems. This is true on my system (except for 3DMark2001) with the MVP3 chipset. I've seen complaints of poor performance on Aladdin5 chipsets as well with the later drivers. It may not be the problem but it's worth trying.<br><br>Also, run the memory benchmark for SiSoft Sandra and run CPUMark99 (or was that your Winbench99 score?). These can give us some idea if your system is underperforming in CPU/Memory intensive benchmarks and whether the problem is with that end of it. You can download CPUMark99 from Uart's page if you don't have it. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.geocities.com/uart0/">www.ge ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Finally, just to test it out, downgrade to 128 MB of memory if you can and see if there is a significant speed increase. Without any onchip L2 cache with the K6-2, exceeding the motherboard's L2 cacheable area can provide quite a performance hit. <p> Epox MVP3G5,K6-3+450@618,256MB SDRAM,CL GF2 GTS,IBM 60GXP 20GB,Fortissimo II Sound<BR>ASUS TX97-XE,K6-3+450@500,256MB SDRAM,Voodoo4 4500 PCI,WD 40GB,SB AWE64 Sound </p><i></i>
E-Machines T6000 (AMD64 3200+) (Don't laugh! It absolutely rocks!)
GigaByte K7N400 Pro2, 3200+, 1 GB DDR, 80 GB WD SE
Epox MVPG5, K6-III+@550, 384 SDRAM, 80 GB WD SE
TX97-XE, K6-III+@400, 256 SDRAM, 40 GB WD HD

jonwest 01
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Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 5:09 pm

It's not the dreaded ASUS chipset incompatibility is it?

Post by jonwest 01 » Sat Aug 03, 2002 7:37 am

If you have a REV. 1.05 P5AB and a K6 manufactured after 3/00 it'll perform like a 486 no matter what you do. <br>You'll have to look at the board to figure out the revision and the chip manufactur date is on the CPU, it goes something like 200012 where the 12 is the manufacture week. Might want to check this out. <p></p><i></i>

Guigui111
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Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:48 pm

Update on my sadly sluggish system

Post by Guigui111 » Sat Aug 10, 2002 4:30 pm

Firstly, thank-you for your ideas and your replies.<br><br>Here's where I stand...<br><br>The motherboard's revision number is 1.04. This is good. I removed all my ram, and installed a 128 mb ram chip. Both 3dmark and Sysoft Sandra inform me that I do NOT have any L2 cache, and to install some. <br><br>On the diagnostics menus, they inform me that I DO have cache on the motherboard (512kb). My first hunch was that the P5A-B motherboard would disable the cache when the memory size exceeded 128 mb. At the very least I proved that it wasn't the case.<br><br>My second hunch was that perhaps the P5A-B motherboard has some sort of 'turbo' button. The old Pentium I owned had a turbo button, which would de-activate the onboard cache to slow the system down.<br><br>Currently I score 18.9 on CPUmark99 and 440 on 3DmarkSE. I have compared other 3Dmark scores, and similar systems (500mzh K6) usually score 1100. I can't seem to find a site that compares CPUmark scores.<br><br>I am wondering if there is anything else that perhaps I may have overlooked. My power supply is new (370 watt Topor) so I am using the ATX power coupling. I had hoped that the bottleneck was a lack of power due to my old 200 watt power supply. It wasn't.<br><br>There are 2 jumpers that I am curious about that don't seem to be explained in the manual. They are<br><br>SMI SWI and<br>TAPWP<br><br>Both are open.<br><br>I am running a vcore of 2.2 and my voltages are pretty accurate. CPU temp is about 51 deg. C on heavy loads.<br><br>Once again, my system is a K6-2, 500mzh with 512 mb of ram, MX-400 Gforce2, SbAudigy, Dlink ethernet card, and the mobo chipsets are the M1542 A1 100 mhz and the M1543c (the AGP I think).<br><br>Maybe the L2 cache switch is broken and I need a software one? <br><br>Thanks for the input<br> <br> <p></p><i></i>

georgep1
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Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 6:09 pm

Re: Update on my sadly sluggish system

Post by georgep1 » Sat Aug 10, 2002 8:52 pm

So with 128 MB of RAM, you still only got 19 in CPUMark99? Wow. <br><br>With a different motherboard, with 1 MB onboard cache, this article <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/k63+/"> ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> shows a K6-2 500 getting around 32 in cpumark99.<br><br>Also, did you try the 12.90 nvidia drivers drivers?<br><br>Are there any programs running in background when you run CPUMARK? Try running it in Safe mode and see if there is much difference.<br><br>Do you have any USB peripherals hooked up? Some of these peripherals hog CPU/Memory bandwidth even when not being used. <p> Epox MVP3G5,K6-3+450@618,256MB SDRAM,CL GF2 GTS,IBM 60GXP 20GB,Fortissimo II Sound<BR>ASUS TX97-XE,K6-3+450@500,256MB SDRAM,Voodoo4 4500 PCI,WD 40GB,SB AWE64 Sound </p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub70.ezboard.com/ugeorgep1.show ... eorgep1</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.ezboard.com/ezgfx/gicons/black_lightning.gif" BORDER=0> at: 8/10/02 11:13:33 pm<br></i>
E-Machines T6000 (AMD64 3200+) (Don't laugh! It absolutely rocks!)
GigaByte K7N400 Pro2, 3200+, 1 GB DDR, 80 GB WD SE
Epox MVPG5, K6-III+@550, 384 SDRAM, 80 GB WD SE
TX97-XE, K6-III+@400, 256 SDRAM, 40 GB WD HD

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uh

Post by blue » Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:37 pm

cpumark99 is NOT a good benchmark, <p></p><i></i>
p3 1ghz laptop
geforce2 go
256mb ram

io333
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Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:11 am

ouch

Post by io333 » Tue Aug 20, 2002 8:16 pm

a k62 regular without mobo cache is like a 286. ick ick ick. you have to find a way to get that cache working correctly or you may as well just toss the whole mobo & processor and upgrade. you should be able to put together a minimal duron upgrade for less than $100.<br><br>you have dug around in your bios, yes? the cache is turned on in the bios. <p></p><i></i>

io333
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reading is fundamental

Post by io333 » Tue Aug 20, 2002 8:18 pm

as usual i posted before reading... i've been in /. too much lately.<br><br>i see you've been playing with the bios, nevermind. maybe try flashing to an older bios & see if the cache turns back on? i'm really groping here though. <p></p><i></i>

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