New Machine based on HP case

Discussion about systems that do not use the K6-x processors.
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Jim
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New Machine based on HP case

Post by Jim » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:10 am

I am building a new machine based on an HP case, wherein the only HP item retained is the case.

It is getting all of my standard modifications, and one other that I had never done before. My standard modifications are :

1) I arrange things so that there is more fan power blowing air INTO the machine than there is blowing air OUT of the machine. This is done to insure that there is "Positive air pressure" inside the machine, so as to insure that any leakage of air is flowing OUT of the machine, NOT IN.

2) I use ladies nylon stocking material to create easily removable, (and cleaned), "Dust Filters" which go over every fan that is blowing IN.

3) I modify the HDD mounts so as to create a "Ducted Fan Setup", wherein air is taken from inside the machine, sucked across the HDDs, then blown OUT of the machine by way of a duct; thereby insuring that : a) Air used to cool the HDDs only gets used ONCE for that purpose, so one never has "Pre-warmed" air being used to cool the HDDs; and b) Other components DO NOT get warmed up by heat taken from the HDDs.

The one new mod I have done for this machine was using a "Scythe KMO3-BK-3.5" 4 channel fan controller which also features 4 separate temperature readouts for those things one wants to monitor. This thing fits in a 3.5 inch floppy bay, BUT is very ill suited for this HP case.

Problems being :

1) The Scythe is so short, that as compared to a floppy, it only has the front two mounting points on each side. (I wish Scythe would reconsider the length they make these things, because in fact they are so short that you can't get at the plugs without taking the whole thing out of the machine).

2) The HP case is designed in such a manner that ALL drives, including floppies are meant to be "Clipin" wherein the rear mounting bolt position, (Non existant on the Scythe), is used to lock the drives in position.

3) The HP case also has completely different top and bottom 3.5 inch floppy bays, wherein the front panels top bay requires the drive in that bay to be mounted about 1/8 inch FURTHER FORWARD than the drive in the bottom bay so as to fit flush in the front panel.

4) The HP case actually has the mounting points for the top 3.5 inch floppy bay located about 1/8 inch FURTHER BACK than the mounting points for the bottom drive; which would leave a floppy sitting about 1/4 inch too far back in the case. I suppose they must have intended this bay to be used strictly for an additional internal HDD.

So what I had to do was extend the length of the Scythe so as to enable the creation of rear mounting bolt points which are 1/4 inch further back than normally found on floppies. Got that part done now; fits and locks in perfectly.

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The machine has a Gigabyte G41MT-D3 board in it with 4 Gig of Hynix DDR3 Ram, (which I think I am going to replace with Skill RAM); and the plan is to get an unlocked 3 GHz Quadcore for it.

The Vantec IDE Hotswap tray will be replaced with a Vantec SATA Hotswap tray, giving the machine a total of 3 SATA HDDs, one removable so as to enable mass import of files from this machine I am using now, which also has a Vantec SATA Hotswap tray.

(Done now, though since this machine only has 2x 5.25 inch bays it means there will not be an IDE Hot Swap Tray, Sigh !! I have 12 or 13 Vantec Hotswap trays 8 of which are IDE),

My research indicated that a "Scythe Mine' (SCMN-1000)" would be the best CPU cooler for this machine, as it gives excellent performance despite limited size; and this is a rather small case; BUT I have not been able to find one available; and I have learned that it is a discontinued item.

See : http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8757

Suggestions anyone ? I am also open to suggestions re the video card, - I don't want to spend a ton of money on it, but would like something with reasonable performance. Say comparable to the 1GB ATI Radeon 4850 that is in this machine or somewhat better.

Thanks for any suggestions offered.

Am currantly working on the HDDs "Ducted Fan Setup", will post photos of that when done. It's kinda tricky to do for this case, because in order to allow the HDDs to be normally removable, (They slide in from the front and lock in position via a "Clipin" setup), the "Ducted fan setup" also has to be partially "Clipin" so as to be readily removable in order to be able to remove the HDDs; so It will take a fair bit of work to create all the necessary parts.

So far I have the main part, (which is the mount for the two fans), about 60% finished. After that is done, I have to make the "Clipin" retainer for it, then fabricate the "Clipin" part of the duct, and the clipin retainers for that. There are also a couple of minor case mods that have to be done re the fans mount and the "clipin" part of the duct. After that is all done then I have to make the parts of the duct that go permanently in place, and make suitable holes in the case for it all to work.

Then after all that is done, I will be modding the case to take either 2 x 80mm Front Chassis Fans, or 2 x 92mm Front Chassis Fans, (mounted side by side), and making the "Dust Filter" for them. Also have to relocate the stock speaker to make room for the front chassis fans.

Still interested in suggestions re CPU Heat Sink and video card.

As promised here are pics of the minor case mod required to make the HDD Cooler's "Fan Mount" so as to be "Clipin". The HDD mounts in this case, look like this :

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The drives slide in from the front with the bolts fitting into the slots on either side and the rearmost bolt serving as a "Lockin" device when it passes by a springy plastic clip. This meant that I had to make my "Fan Mount" readily removable so as to be able to service the drives.

At the bottom of the lower floppy bay there is a piece of sheet metal sticking out forward; See item with 3 small rectangular holes in it in next photo

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My fan mount for the HDDs is designed to slide into place from the left side of the machine, and it is fitted with narrow flanges that fit under retaining strips which except for the ones at the top, I have not yet made. You will notice it is about 1/8 of an inch high so as to create space for the nuts which will hold the fans in position when it is finished, and allow the whole thing to slide smoothly into position without any interference being caused by said nuts.

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The minor casemod involved was to cut the piece of sheet metal with the 3 rectangular holes in it so as to cut a strip about 5/16 of an inch wide on both sides, then bend those strips down and cut them short so as to form the top clips that hold the fan mount in place.

Needless to say, in addition to making the retaining strips, I still have to create the "Fan Holes" and bolt the fans in place. -- Not to mention creating a custom made receptacle for their wiring, AND creating the "Clipin" mounts for the "Duct" as well as creating the "Duct" itself. Lots of work in front of me.

If anyone here wonders why I bother with these custom made HDD cooling setups, it is because I found that a pair of WD 40 Gig IDE drives were running at 77 degrees C in one of my AT machines. Further, see the following from Wikipedia :

Power consumption
Power consumption has become increasingly important, not just in mobile devices such as laptops but also in server and desktop markets. Increasing data center machine density has led to problems delivering sufficient power to devices (especially for spin up), and getting rid of the waste heat subsequently produced, as well as environmental and electrical cost concerns (see green computing). Heat dissipation directly tied to power consumption, and as drive age, disk failure rates increase at higher drive temperatures. [50] Similar issues exist for large companies with thousands of desktop PCs. Smaller form factor drives often use less power than larger drives. One interesting development in this area is actively controlling the seek speed so that the head arrives at its destination only just in time to read the sector, rather than arriving as quickly as possible and then having to wait for the sector to come around (i.e. the rotational latency).[citation needed] Many of the hard drive companies are now producing Green Drives that require much less power and cooling. Many of these Green Drives spin slower (<5,400 rpm compared to 7,200, 10,000 or 15,000 rpm) and also generate less waste heat.[citation needed] Power consumption can also be reduced by parking the drive heads when the disk is not in use reducing friction, adjusting spin speeds according to transfer rates, and disabling internal components when not in use.[51]

NOTE : I searched some other sites, and I did not find a single reference to HDD cooling other than my own. Frankly I was surprized that nobody seems to care about their HDD temps. Cook a processor, and all you have to do is replace it and you are back where you started. Cook an HDD and you've lost a heck of a lot of data.

Since my HDD Cooling "Fan Mount" was made by the method of cutting grooves in a sheet of metal to enable bending it precisely at 90 degrees along a precise line, I decided to "Solder Fill" the cut grooves for strength so the thing stays rigidly in shape. I did the same with SUPERPUPPY 3s "HDD Cooling" setup., which is why you see solder inside it.

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Not as pretty as it could be; but it works.

I've made the clipin mount for the fan mount now and installed it. The fan mount's flanges slide in under the flanges on the clipin mount. To remove the "Fan Mount" you just slide it to the left until it is completely out from under the clipin mount's flanges. It is a pretty snug fit, so no lockin devices are necessary.

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Because of the "Incredibly Idiotic" processor location on "ATX" boards, (Top Centre - the hottest part of the case), thereby forcing the HDDs to be mounted in the lower front part of the case, the "Duct" design for this thing is going to be pretty "Mickey Mouse". Not at all good for "Airflow", but rather convoluted as all get out, so as to :

1) Fit neatly inside the case,
2) Not interfere with the airflow from the "Front Chassis Fans",
3) Be partially readily removable so as to allow the servicing of the HDDs,
4) Not interfere with any other components.

Question : Why do we allow computer mobos to be designed by morons ?

Anyway, that is where it stands now.
Last edited by Jim on Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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tazwegion
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Post by tazwegion » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:48 am

Very creative solution Jim! :D


Those Scythe thermal devices certainly look the part, personally I've always wanted one of those Cooler Master Musketeers but they're getting a little thin on the ground here abouts and TBH they're more form than function :wink:
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Jim
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Post by Jim » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:42 pm

Have resumed work on my new HP machine. Have obtained two 2 Gig sticks of G Skill Ripjaws 1600 MHz DDR 3 RAM for it, 2,3,2,5 Timing stuff, that should speed up XP somewhat. Have also ordered 3 x WD 320 Gig SATA 2 HDDs for it. Also got a "Scythe Rasetsu" CPU cooler for it. Still have to get the processor; but have resumed work on the "Ducted Fan HDD Cooling Setup". Photos to follow as work is completed.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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jsc1973
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Post by jsc1973 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:00 pm

The ATX specification was actually issued by Intel in the early 1990s in response to problems with the older AT motherboard layout. At the time, heat dissipation on the CPU wasn't a major issue. I don't think Intel ever expected the ATX spec to survive to 2011; heck, they didn't expect x86 to survive to 2011. At one point, they proposed a new form factor to address the heat issue, but it never caught on.

They do have some morons at Intel, like the people who developed the original P3-1133 and the ones involved in the Rambus fiasco, not to mention the early Pentium 4's. But I'll give them a pass on ATX. It was a solid design, by the standards of 1994.
FIC VA-503+, Rev. 1.2, AMD K6-III+ 450@550MHz, 80GB Seagate ATA-100, 3dfx Voodoo3 3500 TV, TB Montego II Quadzilla, Win98se, 384MB PC100

Compaq Presario 1273, AMD K6-III+ 450@400MHz 1.8v, 40GB Samsung 5400RPM, extremely hacked Win98SE, 288 (yes, 288!) MB RAM
(Also an AMD FX-8350, which does the heavy lifting these days...)

Jim
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Post by Jim » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:00 pm

Well, I bought the processor for the new machine. Cost me $827.00 including import duties. It is an Intel socket 775 core 2 Extreme qx9770 3.2 GHz Quadcore with a 1600 MHz FSB. To go with it I picked up two 2 Gig sticks of "G Skill" RAM with a 1600 MHz FSB and 2,3,2,5 timing.

Problems started when I tried to find a mobo that would support it. There was only one type of Micro ATX board made that would support this sucker. Said board is the Gigabyte GA-EG41MFT-US2H, and they seem to be rare as hen's teeth. I managed to get one that is supposedly "Manufacturer Refurbished", and it has passed initial tests; but trying to get a NEW board of this type, ran me into a fair bit of what I suspect ia fraud. Long Story; - But if anyone is interested, I'll tell it.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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Nohr
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Post by Nohr » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:41 am

Jim wrote:Well, I bought the processor for the new machine. Cost me $827.00 including import duties. It is an Intel socket 775 core 2 Extreme qx9770 3.2 GHz Quadcore with a 1600 MHz FSB.
Wow, you could build an entire Core i7 socket 1155 setup for that much money. And it would be faster! :shock:

AnandTech CPU Bench Comparison

Jim
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Post by Jim » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:54 pm

Yeah, well I never go with newish technology. Tend to stick with Proven technology, - Like K6-3 Plus's, - which I STILL use. Might cost the odd extra buck, but at least you KNOW it's going to work.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

Jim
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Post by Jim » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:31 pm

Well I finally managed to find a supposedly new Gigabyte GA EG41MFT-US2H board, (with all the standard accessories that come with a "New" board), so now I have 2 of them. I also managed to obtain not just one, but 3 backing plates for said board, one of which is quite a bit nicer than the others. I also got a "Scythe Mine' 1000" CPU cooler for it, so now I have to find out which will work better, - The Rasetsu, or the Mine'. Have also resumed work on the case mods, though it will be a while before I am ready to post pictures.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

Jim
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Post by Jim » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:52 pm

Just to let you know I am still working on it, and making some progress. Have done my custom mount for the two front chassis fans, and got the two front chassis fans mounted and the two HDD fans mounted too. Am going to start doing "Dust Filters" for them next.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

Jim
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Posts: 1745
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: New Machine based on HP case

Post by Jim » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:20 pm

Got the OS for it now, WINXP-PRO - since I have no use for Vista, 7, and 8. Next is the HDDs. Planning on getting 5 WD 250 Gig RE4 2503ABYX drives for it. 2 Internal, 1 installed in a SATA "Hot Swap Tray" and 2 more in additional SATA "Hot Swap Trays" which can replace the installed one.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

James
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Re: New Machine based on HP case

Post by James » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:53 am

WinXP is definately going to be a better experience, With Windows 98/98SE we lack driver support. I reverted mine back to Win98SE and am regretting it. But heck, I like reinstalling changing configuration and reverting back. What I really need to do is have a dual-boot Windows 98SE and XP system. As it is now, I have MS-DOS on first disk and Windows 98SE on the 2nd one. Once I get tired of playing DOS games again, I will revert back. I have no need of this system being online.

Jim, if you can post more pics and any performance screen grabs with WinXP, that would be great.

Regards,
James Cannon

Jim
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Re: New Machine based on HP case

Post by Jim » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:43 pm

In time James, I work as a courier, and here in Toronto, the PO-LICE are constantly out to rob us. (The world's worst "Bloodsucking Lice"), Parking tickets, speeding tickets, (They have the traffic lights synchronized 20 KPH OVER the speed limit here. Drive at the limit, and you get every light red, traffic jams, pollution, accidents. Speed 20 KPH OVER the limit and you get all the lights green. -- And thats just PART of the scams they are pulling). That is why I refer to the Crown, the courts, and the PO-LICE as the "Ministry of theives, bandits, and extortion artists.

Right now I am in the middle of a war with them. I have 4 court dates coming up in the next couple of months, and having to go to court reduces my income. But in time it will get sorted out, and I'll be able to buy the necessary parts to finish this machine.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

James
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Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:51 am
Location: N37° 54.0553', W121° 25.3657'

Re: New Machine based on HP case

Post by James » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:20 am

Hi Jim,

Hang in there! Sounds like they have your number. :(

Might be good to do an electronic sweep of your vehicle for any tracking devices. ;)

Regards,
James Cannon

Jim
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Re: New Machine based on HP case

Post by Jim » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:56 pm

No, they don't "have my number" it is a case of out and out extortion being run against delivery drivers. All the little side streets near major intersections here in Toronto are signed "No Stopping". So if you have to do a delivery to a building at a major intersection, they are out to steal your money. BUT I KNOW THE LAW ON THE SUBJECT QUITE THOROUGHLY, AND THE CITY, (SHITTY), IS BREAKING THE LAW WHOLESALE IN THEIR EFFORTS TO EXTORT REVENUE. ERGO MY EFFORTS TO FIGHT THEM IN COURT. Not long ago the Crown withdrew $510.00, (Five hundred and ten dollars), worth of "Parking Tickets" against me.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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