Win98 Swap file

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KGB
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Win98 Swap file

Post by KGB » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:57 pm

Is it necessary if you have 512Mb of memory installed? I've "heard" many times over that Win9X/ME does not and could not utilize any further than 512. Is this true? If so, can I go about disabling it in the operating system.

This question is being posed for my K6-2 setup, which is generally more stabler under Win98se. I installed it without any issues today, and haven't run any prime95 or everest tests yet. Though I am certain I don't need nor would require it.

What are your thoughts? Thanks for looking.
-K6-2 550 Gigagyte GA-5AX (5.2) 1x512MB GeForce 2 Ti500 64MB
-Pentium III 933 Asus P3C-L 2x128MB GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB DDR
-Pentium III 750 Asus P3B-F ATi Rage128 GL 32MB
-Celeron 1.2 Asus TUSI-M 2x128MB
-Pentium IV 1.5 DELL 2350 1x128MB
-Athlon 900 Asus K7M 1x256MB 2x128MB GeForce 3 64MB
-AthlonXP-M 2400+ Asus K7V880 2x512MB HIS Radeon HD3850 512MB DDR

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Nohr
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Post by Nohr » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:28 am

This Unofficial 98 SE Service Pack claims to solve the >512MB problem.

Jim
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Post by Jim » Mon May 08, 2006 3:29 am

In practice, I have found that WIN98-SE is incapable of using more that 256 Meg of RAM without the "Unofficial Service Pack". The "Unofficial Service Pack" raises that limit supposedly to 4 Gig. I have not been able to confirm that; but it does definitely remove the 256 Meg restriction.

One downside of the "Unofficial Service Pack" is that it changes some of your icons to the WIN2K versions, like it or not; (and I don't). Another downside is that it overwrites some newer files with older versions without mentioning it. THAT causes problems with some software.

The way to get around that, is to load the "Unofficial Service Pack" early in the install sequence before you update "Windoze". Since the "Unofficial Service Pack" is composed of various "Windoze Updates" loading it on top of a fresh install is not going to overwrite anything newer.

Something else that I just tonight found out, is that with 768 Meg of RAM installed; and the "Unofficial Service Pack" loaded, Windoze, left to its own devices, will set the swapfile size to "0 Megabytes".
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
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Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue May 09, 2006 6:03 am

Addendum: Some people are going to think : "What is he talking about? - I have 384, (or 512 or some such), Meg of RAM; and Windows uses all of it." True and false. Windoze will RECOGNIZE and REPORT any amount of RAM your board will support; BUT it won't USE more than 256 Meg without the "Unofficial Service Pack". If you doubt that, install Norton Utilities 2000, and setup "System Doctor" so as to monitor RAM usage, and leave it open while running your various applications. 256 Meg, (261xxx k), is the max you will find used no matter what application you run.

Then install the "Unofficial Service Pack"; and "Voila" up the RAM usage goes. - 350Meg typical, 490Meg occasionally etc.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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KGB
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Post by KGB » Tue May 09, 2006 2:57 pm

Jim, Nohr
I downloaded the unofficial Win98 update from 9Down sometime ago, but my question is regarding the swap file. Maybe I didn't make it so clear in my initial post. I remember back in '97 when the standard memory in systems were 32 or 64 MB of ram, Prior to the Windows 98 release. Win98 being a derivative of Windows 95, programmers obviously felt compelled to create a SWAP file, in order to increase the amount of RAM available to the processor.

With the 512mb installed, does it seem necessary to utilize the Swap file? Seems unnecessary to me. (Besides all the other good points you've made about the feasability of RAM greater than 256)
-K6-2 550 Gigagyte GA-5AX (5.2) 1x512MB GeForce 2 Ti500 64MB
-Pentium III 933 Asus P3C-L 2x128MB GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB DDR
-Pentium III 750 Asus P3B-F ATi Rage128 GL 32MB
-Celeron 1.2 Asus TUSI-M 2x128MB
-Pentium IV 1.5 DELL 2350 1x128MB
-Athlon 900 Asus K7M 1x256MB 2x128MB GeForce 3 64MB
-AthlonXP-M 2400+ Asus K7V880 2x512MB HIS Radeon HD3850 512MB DDR

Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue May 09, 2006 9:40 pm

Like I said, If you have the "Unofficial Service Pack" installed, and the amount of installed RAM is high enough, (768 Meg), Windoze itself will set the swapfile size to 0 Meg. Why? What swapfile size are you getting w/ 512 Meg of RAM and the Unofficial Service Pack?
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi » Wed May 10, 2006 5:33 am

Jim - Does it actually set the file size to zero (turns it off) or does it set a MinSize/MaxSize and only utilize 0 MB?

Some programs are actually written to utilize the swapfile for things it will need, but not right away (they actually write to the swapfile). Without one, these programs might act *funny*.
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)

Jim
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Post by Jim » Wed May 10, 2006 6:33 am

Kachi : Settings are:
1) Let Windoze manage my virtual memory settings. [Recommended]
2) Minimum = 0
3) Maximum = No Maximum

System Doctor is reporting a Swap File size of 0 Meg. It is also reporting Swap File Usage as 0 Meg.
Speed Disk, (which shows the Swap File in a different colour), shows no swap file present.
Disk usage software, (Windoze and other), shows dramatically increased available disk space available in my 3.2 Gig "C" partition.

BTW, What did you think of the "display" I designed for SP-3 ?
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi » Thu May 11, 2006 6:48 am

Will reply to that over there. :wink:
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)

Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:09 pm

K, On the subject of tyhe "Moronsh-t Windopes 98 SE" Swapfile, here is another take. I commonly work w/ very large files. Sometimes as much as 2.5 Gig; but often between 1 and 1.7 Gig; and I am having problems trying to set my "Swapfile" large enough to work w/ files like that. Obviously the machine doesn't have enough RAM to work with files that large without a swapfile, so when I open such a file it gets copied into the swapfile.

Now for reasons known best to moronsh-t the maximum file size, (of any type), that windopes can cope w/ is 4 Gig; and I have successfully created backup files that were just under the 4 Gig limit; but for some reason windopes will not set a swapfile size larger than 2047 Meg. If you open the control panel, click system, click performance, and click virtual memory, in theory you should be able to take control of the swapfile size away from windopes and set the size yourself.

Yet in practice when I set the minimum file size to 3600 Meg, and the maximum file size to 4000 Meg, (this in an empty 12 Gig partition), what happens is windopes says I have to restart the machine before the setting will take effect; then once restarted, if rechecked, you find that windopes has again taken over control of managing the swapfile from the user; and though the settings that I set are there, they are greyed out and the actual swapfile size is 2047 Meg.

So why does it matter? Right now I am working w/ a scan file that is a bit upwards of 1.2 Gig; (20640 by 20651 Pixels). It has been my experience that in order to get best results in image processing, the pixel dimensions of the file should be evenly divisable by the screen resolution. I would therefore like to crop the file to 19968 by 19968 pixels before starting processing it. What happens when I go to do that is the crop functions ok; but when I go to save the cropped image, I get a message "Not Enough Memory". This is because Moronsh-t designed Windopes in such a manner that files which have been copied into the swapfile because they have been used by a program cannot be overwritten or deleted until the program is closed; and in some cases not even then. (in these latter cases a restart is required to delete the file).

Now because the file was originally copied into the swapfile, that uses 1.2 gig. Cropping the file uses still more as the file gets copied back into the swapfile in its revised version. Go to save the file; and you run out of memory!! And it takes about 20 Minutes for each step. What a PO!!

Anybody know a way to make the user settings stick? I have managed to do it before, but I don't know how. Probably before the latest "Upgrades" from Moronsh-t.

Well, I figured it out again. Trick is to : EDIT : Be sure to remove the mask before saving. That makes a big difference. i.e. it allows you to get by w/ a lousy 2047 Meg swapfile. Whis is too small for the kind of work I do.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card

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