What is a Superpuppy?

Discussion relating to Socket 7 hardware.
Jim
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Post by Jim »

If anyone buys a "Thermaltake Smart Case Fan 2", be advised that the manually adjustable speed control, is supposed to be a "Set and Forget" item. If you put a knob on it and use that to change the fan speed as desired, the trimpot will soon fail. Not only do I know that from my own experience; but going back to the store where I bought it, I found that they had removed them from stock, and when I asked the salesman there about them, noting that mine had failed, he asked if it was the fan that died. Told no, it was the speed control, he immediately asked if I had put a knob on it, so I guess they have had a number of problems w/ them.

The trimpot is a 10k item, and I have replaced it w/ a 25k pot, which got the thing working again. Interestingly though, even turned right down, the fan runs quite a bit faster w/ the manual control connected, than it does w/ it disconnected. What that means is there are two power circuits in these fans. One of them supplies power which is temperature adjusted, (i.e. as temps go up so does the amount of power supplied to the fan). The other is the manually adjusted supply, which bypasses the temperature controlled power lead, thereby allowing the fan to get power from both leads.

I am going to try using an even higher value pot, (space is limited and the selection of pots that will fit is also limited; but I think there is a 200k version of the one that I am using), to see if that will bring the manually controlled speed range down closer to what you can get as a minimum from the temperature controlled setup.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
Jim
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Jim »

@ KachiWachi : This thing is wierd. Have replaced the 25K fan speed control pot w/ a 50K one and got the following results : If only the manual speed control is connected, what happens is the speed is at maximun w/ the pot turned all the way down. (50K ohms). Turn the control up; (decreasing resistance) and the speed starts to drop, until you have turned the pot half way through its rotational travel, at which point the fan speed is at minimum. Turn it further, (further decreasing resistance); and the speed starts to rise again, until when the pot is turned all the way up, (minimum resistance), you are back at maximum fan speed.

If on the other hand the temperature sensing fan speed control is also connected, then the manual fan speed control works properly; - with minimum fan speed coming with the pot set at maximum resistance,; and maximum fan speed coming with the pot set at minimum resistance.

Apart from that; am also having a problem getting the temperature sensors working. What I am getting is a temperature readout of 0.0 degrees C from both sensor circuits; irrespective of which sensor the switched circuit is set on. Tried disconnecting both circuits and substituting fixed resistors for the sensor circuitry on both sides to see if I could figure out what value resistance is within tolerances to get a readout from the Enermax; and again the results have been confusing. Have gotten readings ranging from -36 Degrees C to upwards of 300 Degrees C, so at least the Enermax is working; but have not yet been able to get sensible results out of it.

Right now, the #1 sensor circuit is wired direct; and the #2, (switched), circuit has a 2.2k ohm resistor put in series to whichever sensor is being monitored. (1-12). Readout for both circuits is 0.0 Degrees C. Figure that.

Will edit to put in circuit diagrams for both sensor circuits; and will also try to take measurements of the impedance(s) in each of the 2 main circuits. 1 value for the direct wired #1 circuit, and 12 values for the #2 switched circuit.

EDIT : Have now completely solved the shutdown problem. (See "Superpuppy 3 Setup" post.) That leaves just the temperature sensor problem left to solve. Get that, and I can button it up, load software, and do my front panel mods to finish the job.
Attachments
Temp Sensor Circuit.txt
(2.94 KiB) Downloaded 428 times
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Post by KachiWachi »

What happens if you connect the thing back up the way it came from the manufacturer?
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Post by Jim »

Not really feasible at this point. The only difference between the #1 circuit as I have it modified and the way it originally was, is that I cut the wires and fitted plugs to both ends so that the various components could be separated from one another. The #2 circuit is a bit more complex but essentially also still the same. All I did was again cut the wires and fit the ends w/ plugs to facilitate service work, and in this case added the grayhill switch in series. I doubt if the difference in impedance exceeds 5 ohms. If however, by chance these sensors have a very low operating impedance range; and if their impedance declines as temperature rises, then perhaps that 5 ohms might become critical.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:53 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by KachiWachi »

Did you use thermocouple connectors (plugs)?
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Jim »

Don't even know what they are. Used Standard two pin connectors like those used to hookup your HDD LED.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:53 am
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Post by KachiWachi »

Thermocouple connectors maitain the same material throughout the connection...so you need to get ones that match the type of thermocouple in use.

Check out the following links for more information.

http://www.omega.com/temperature/tsc.html
http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/sectionSC. ... emperature

Thanks.
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
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Post by Jim »

Now that complicates matters considerably. In order to maintain the same material throughout the circuits, one would have to use wire that is made of the same material, a custom made Grayhill switch made of the same material, plugs and recepticles made of the same material, and then there is the matter of soldering. Effectively you are saying that what I set out to do is for practical purposes, impossible.

EDIT : I checked out the links that you provided; and I didn't see anything remotely like the temp sensors that I am using. They do not have fancy wire, (i.e. not shielded), nor did they come w/ fancy plugs. Rather the ones that came w/ the Enermax had ordinary two conductor wires similar to what you find on 2 wire fans and were joined directly to the Enermax by yard long lengths of said wire. The extra sensors that I got from Pat at Uptown Computer are quite similar to the Enermax ones in terms of having the same general type of sensing unit, (identical in appearance, though possibly w/ differing part numbers), and similar 2 conductor wire running out of them w/ plugs identical to those found for example on an HDD LED wire running from a computer front panel.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:53 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by KachiWachi »

Yup.

You have to remember that each new dissimilar junction becomes a new thermocouple, so technically the only junction you should have is the one at the end (thermocouple bead).

We never soldered...we welded. :wink:

What type of thermocouple does the Enermax use?
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Jim »

Don't know. At this point they are crazy glued in under the overhanging edges of heatsinks in contact w/ the edges of the chips they were supposed to be monitoring. Would have to get another Enermax to find out. I was operating on the assumption that these thermal sensors were some kind of thermistor wherein the resistance varied in accordance w/ temperature. Further since resistance usually deals w/ values ranging from around a hundred ohms to values upwards of several k/ohms, I did not think that the modifications I made would have any noticable effect on the operation of the circuits, since basically all they do is measure the resistance of temperature variable resistors, and translate the obtained measurement into a temperature reading. If for example, at 25C the impedance of one of these things was 4700 ohms, and at 30C it was 5600 ohms, then I did not think that the additional 1 to 5 ohms, (estimated), that my modifications entailed would make any difference.

Apparently, however, they are not very sophisticated. Instead of having any kind of microcircuitry, they are simply bimetalic junctions that have very little resistance to begin with; and vary only slightly in resistance as temperature changes if I understand you correctly.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:53 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by KachiWachi »

What is the complete name/part number of the Enermax?
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
K6'er Elite
Posts: 1745
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Jim »

Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:53 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by KachiWachi »

So it is a UC-A3FATR2?

Is this what is printed on the thing?
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
Jim
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Posts: 1745
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:10 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Jim »

Not visably; but I think you are right. That is the same designation that I found describing another one that I just bought on e-bay.
Superpuppy 3
K6-3+ 450 ACZ (6x100)
DFI K6BV3+/66 Rev B2 (2 Meg) w/ 2x28mm Chipset Fans
2x256 Meg PC 133 Hynix SDRAM
1x 20G Maxtor (7200)
2x 80G Maxtor (7200) Ducted w/ 2x486 Fans Mount
52/24/52/16 LG CDR/RW/DVD
8/4/3/12/24/16/32 LG Super Multi
ATI 9000 aiw Radeon AGP
SB Audigy 1 MP3 Sound
CMD 649 IDE Controller
NEC USB 2 Card
User avatar
KachiWachi
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Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:53 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by KachiWachi »

Well...for the moment, I would disconnect Channel 2, since that string is more complicated.

I would think Channel 1 shouldn't be affected too much since you only shortened the wires...if they are thermocouples that is (and not thermistors, etc...).
Moderator - Wim's BIOS

PC #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128 MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
PC #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128 MB EDO
PC #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768 MB SDRAM
PC #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256 MB SDRAM
PC #5 - Gateway 700X, P4-2.0 GHz, 768 MB PC800 RDRAM
PC #6 - COMPAQ Evo N1020v laptop, P4-2.4 GHz, 1 GB PC2700 DDR
PC #7 - Dell Dimension 4600i, P4-2.8 GHz, 512 MB PC2700 DDR
PC #8 - Acer EeePC netbook, Atom N270 @ 1.60 GHz, 1 GB RAM
PC #9 - ??? ;)
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